Here's a question you don't hear every day!

[RED]

I am trying to duplicate the rounds used to assassinate JFK including the "magic" bullet. The original rounds used by Oswald were:

manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co., at East Alton ILL. This type of cartridge was loaded with a full metal jacketed, military type of bullet weighing 160-161 grs,

Back in those days that was quite a bit of information. But there was much more that was not revealed. For example, the "full metal jacketed, military type of bullet," was also a steel cored tough SOB of .265-.268 diameter that today would be classified as "armor piercing." Could that that clarify how a bullet could pierce a neck, pass through a car seat and break a bone in another human...

Back to reloading... I have pulled the .263-264 SMP bullets from some Norma 6.5 Carcano cases plus I have some, resized, once fired Norma brass. Using RCBS 6.5X52 dies I have tried reloading with the steel cored military bullets and there is a problem. The ogives of the bullets are very different and the "modern" RCBS dies simply do not work to seat (and crimp) the larger diameter bullet.

Thoughts and suggestions please.

[Major Tom]

Hmmmm, what are you up to Red? 8-/

[joem]

Seat the bullet, them remove the seating stem and crimp. WAG, might work.

[RED]

Seat the bullet, them remove the seating stem and crimp. WAG, might work.

I'll try that. I am also going to call RCBS and see if they have any ideas.

[Sunray]

You saying you're trying to seat a .268" bullet in a .264" case mouth? Ya'll need a bigger expander. Might be something you can make if you have a lathe.

[leftyo]

just about any hunting bullet will easily pass through something as small as a human neck, and a car seat isnt going to add any resistance.

[joem]

I know for a fact that WWII M2AP .30-06 will punch a hole in 1/2" A500 steel at 150 yds. That's why i don't shoot steel anymore at the club.

[PhillipM]

Western Cartridge Company wasn't making any commercial bullets with steel cores.

[barretcreek]

Just checked my 1955 Gun Digest. Western doesn't list a 6.5 Carcano and they sure weren't gonna crank out .268 bullets for something they didn't load. I'll check my later GD for a list closer to '63. Allegedly a bullet from the President's body fell out of the wound onto the gurney at Parkland Hospital and was recovered. Uh huh. This is from a round which is ballistically identical to the cartridge which W.D.M. Bell used to make one shot kills on bull elephants, shooting through their skulls into their brains. So the gubmint wants me to believe the bullet only went partway through a human body? Don't know everything about the assassination but I know that's b.s.

Oswald probably had Italian mil-surp ammo.

[psteinmayer]

The interesting thing about that bullet was that it was pristine. Another point added to the mystery of what REALLY happened!

[Matt Anthony]

Unfortunately you will not be able in any shape or form duplicate the round that allegedly was used. The entire investigation was false. Better yet, the Warren Commision locked the entire file for 75 years. We have another 24 years until the gov't unlocks it. Even then their findings will be suspect. Look at how they are treating the Scalia death. Time is a factor.....in 24 years no one now who was alive in 1963 will even care as they will be eating dirt sandwiches along with Kennedy.
Matt

[joem]

Have to agree with Matt on this. Whole thing smells funny.

[Tuna]

I think Oswald used surplus Italian ammo. If so the rounds have a very thick cupro nickel jacket with a lead core. The 6.5 caliber 160 gr. RNFMJ is a very well designed bullet for penetration and is well known for that. Anytime a long thin heavy bullet is used in a caliber it has a tendency to penetrate. Another example is the 7mm with a 175 gr. bullet. That's why both of these calibers were used in Africa to harvest elephants. For 160 gr. FMJ bullets to do the damage they did and to penetrate as much as they did is not surprising at all.

[jgaynor]

The warren commission report contains photographs of the so-called "pristine" bullet (CE-399). Viewed from the side it appears undamaged. However, viewed from the base one side of the bullet appears badly flattened along its length.

CE399 was reportedly recovered from Governor Connelly's stretcher and was most likely damaged when it passed thru his body.

[budster]

IIRC, the ammo was Western 160gr. RNFMJ which Tuna has stated. That particular bullet was made with a cupro-nickel jacket and a lead core of 2-4% antimony. Very strong by todays standards. Hornady is the only one who makes "Cupro-Nickel" Bullets for African Hunting/Big Game Ammo. It is designed for thick skinned game or very deep penetration.
The WW 6.5 Carcano Ammo will pop up at gun shows every once in a while and have seen them at about $20.00 per cartridge.