Powder - ball vs. stick

[PhillipM]

Have used both stick (4895IMR) & both BLC@ & WW748 (ball) for M1, M1A,& ar15, for over the course NMC and hunting. Have had no problem withloads.
Switched to the ball powder for ease of measuring through RCBS powder measure.

I'll give it that. I've loaded a bunch of what is supposed to be BLC (2) , surplus WCC 746, and it measures perfectly down to less than a tenth of a grain.

[PhillipM]

30 years ago IMR=8208 was surplus and I bought many an 8lb keg for $48 @ the Columbus, Ohio gun show. If I remember right it was pulldown from 5.56 tracer. Sure wish powder was available and reasonable now.
Sam

You just taught me something I did not know. Thank you!

[psteinmayer]

What makes these called "M2 Match loads"? Is it the bullet weight (similar to USGI M2 AP)?

Sorry Para, that is just how I refer to them... didn't mean to confuse no one. I started with M2 Ball cases (Lake City 68). The Match is because I am using the Nosler Match bullets and I'm shooting them in matches. I should have said "My Match Loads" and left the M2 out of it.

[Ken in Iowa]

30 years ago IMR=8208 was surplus and I bought many an 8lb keg for $48 @ the Columbus, Ohio gun show. If I remember right it was pulldown from 5.56 tracer. Sure wish powder was available and reasonable now.
Sam

IMR8208 was developed by DuPont in the mid-1960s to resolve the shortcomings of the Olin WC846 ball powder in use with 5.56 ammo at the time. It was truly an American success story. By the late 1960s, Olin finally sorted out the issues and the cheaper WC844 emerged as the standard 5.56 powder. 8208 was discontinued and surplused.

One or two lots of surplus 8208 became quite popular with the benchrest crowd. If memory serves, it was sold through Thunderbird Cartridge Company as TCC322. The small, short grain size was quite a revelation in that it metered very well- a great attribute to high speed factory loading and reloaders alike!

When the surplus powder was used up, Hodgdon was approached to start production of a replacement. ADI in Australia was tapped to develope and produce a modernized version incorporating the same attributes of Varget such as temperature insensitivity. IMR8208XBR was the result.

Loading data from Hodgdon shows the versatility of this powder which is slightly faster than 4895. Its slower burning cousins are Varget and H4350.

[Ken in Iowa]

Stick powders were used from the very beginning of the 30-06. By WW2 the standard powder was IMR4895 a stick powder still used today by reloaders for their 30-06 ammo used in M1 Garands. IMR 4895 was the standard till the military switched production of the 30-06 to ball powders during Viet Nam.

Ummm, Winchester used ball powder in WWII to load 303 and 30/06 ammunition. Hodgdon sold some surplus powder after the war as Ball C and 380 respectively. The modern newly manufactured commercial versions are BLC2 and H380.

[Tuna]

Winchester or was it Western? Western was developing a ball powder for the M1 carbine round during WW2. But I have never found any information on them developing or using a ball power for the 30-06.

[Ken in Iowa]

As of 1935, the company name was Winchester-Western.

[bruce]

Have used both since 1980. Both ball and stick give excellent results when the load is tailored to the rifle. Must say some of the most accurate loads I've ever developed used ball powders. With a progressive press, I prefer to use only ball powders since metering consistency is superior compared to stick powders. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[Darreld Walton]

I loaded 'stick' powders exclusively for many years, until I finally broke down an brought a Dillon 550 home.....still load stick powders on a single stage, but my big volume 'blowin' up the hillside' loads in the progressive now get 748.

[Tuna]

Just so one knows it was Western that owned Winchester. Winchester powders were made for them by Western and sold as Winchester. Again I have not found any reference to Western making a ball powder for 30-06 during WW2.

[Merc]

Many military rifles have a rate of twist that is a bit fast for boat tail bullets and these rifles shoot better with flat based bullets. The M1 Garand used a 1 in 10 twist and the M14 used a 1 in 12 twist which would work better with the boat tail. I have heard some say oh my rifle likes boat tails and maybe it does but the vast majority don't.

What you're saying is interesting. When I pulled the bullet from the 1952 RA .30-06 cartridge, I found that it contained stick powder and a flat base 150 gr bullet. I have been shooting .30-06 150 gr FMJ boat tail in the M1917 and the 03-A3 with what I'd call good results in the M1917 but not as good in the 03-A3. My Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1* definitely prefers the flat based bullets. Boat tails come in FMJ but found flat base in soft point, at least so far, still looking. I just bought a box of FMJ-BT for reloading the .30-06 cases. Next time I'll try to find flat base.

[p246]

I know I have talked about a couple of No 4s that shoot boattails very well. However to clarify in the 20 ish L.E.s I own they are the only two. I have not found a No 1 yet that digested boat tails well. It might be out there but I don't own it.


I use the heck out of Varget, I just like that powder. For the magnums I use Retumbo. I started with H 1000 but struggled to find it and could always find Retumbo, sometimes in 1 pound bottles but I could always find it. Let's hope the short powder days are over for a while.