Is my .45/70 a safe shooter?

[Dick Hosmer]

Are you SURE about that H4895 load? Just does NOT seem right to me - sounds like something you'd put in a Krag, behind a bullet of half the weight!!

[CATT]

Did a recheck and you were correct in saying 15.9 was too much powder it was actually 11.9 of Trail Boss, my mistake.

Hodgdon's lists Trail Boss loads with the 405 gr. bullet at 12.0 grains at 24,500 CUP for velocity @ 971 FPS and Max at 13.0 grains at 25,600 CUP for 1007 FPS.

15.9 looks to be beyond what I'd be comfortable shooting in a trapdoor. Trail Boss looks to produce the lowest velocity at the highest pressure & what I've read from other experienced shooters is that Trail Boss is a poor choice for reloading trapdoor ammo. OTOH, 40.0 grains H4895 gets you 1496 fps at 14,900 CUP.

[Dick Hosmer]

Re-checks are good!

BUT, it is still the H4895 load that has me worried if a beginner gets hold of it! That is at least Krag, even mild 1903, territory so far as I recall.

[alfajim]

Re-checks are good!

BUT, it is still the H4895 load that has me worried if a beginner gets hold of it! That is at least Krag, even mild 1903, territory so far as I recall.

Dick my Hodgdon book shows for a 405gr cast that 48.0gr of H4895 gives 1645 velocity at 18.900CUP. I think better loads would be with H4198 and or IMR 4198 slightly less velocity and lower CUP with H4198.

Jim

[kragluver]

Be careful on the Hodgdon website (not sure on the book). Some of the loads they list are very hot. I shoot a lot of .45-70 with SR-4759 and IMR-3031 in modern lever actions and in the Sharps. I would recommend the Lyman book. It lists lots of bullet and powder combinations for all three levels of .45-70.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick my Hodgdon book shows for a 405gr cast that 48.0gr of H4895 gives 1645 velocity at 18.900CUP. I think better loads would be with H4198 and or IMR 4198 slightly less velocity and lower CUP with H4198.

Jim

Thanks for looking that up, clearly I was off, but better to err on the side of caution!

[alfajim]

Yea some of the loads are rediclus for a trapdoor most are just only for the later Winchester and Marlin lever guns.
The 3rd edition of my lyman books loads are just as bad for trapdoors 20,000+ cup a bit to high for an older well used one.
I could probably use some of those hot loads in the trapdoor I'm building with the "BRAND NEW' barrel and receiver I veery luckily picked up from e-bay, yes it is just beautiful, perfect, never used from day made in 1884 brand new. It needs some minor repair work to fix the damage done when sold with a torch simple sleeve job at the mouth of the chamber.

Jim

[alfajim]

I read on one of the forums that it not the pressure so much that is bad for the trapdoor and other older actions with smokeless over black as the big differences in the pressure rise and rise time?

Jim

[kragluver]

I've come to the realization that there is no good reason to really hot-rod the .45-70... even though you "can" in a modern rifle. For me personally, a 350-405 gr bullet at 1600 fps is plenty much. They are no fun to shoot beyond that. I have shot some 350 gr bullets out of my Marlin 1895 pushing 2100 fps based on the Hodgdon website loads. The recoil was intense to say the least. A 350-400 gr bullet at a sedate 1200-1300 fps is much more pleasant to shoot and will kill anything walking in North America. More velocity just means more recoil in that cartridge. You will never flatten its rainbow trajectory to make sense in putting up with the extreme recoil.