Chicago City Police M66 short Rifles

[Discus420]

I just got this Chicago City Police M66 short rifle at auction it was sold as a "Springfield 2nd Model Allin Trapdoor Conversion of 1866". Its is a Bannerman conversion as it has a filled in middle barrel spring and the cleaning rod is not threaded. It is Marked C.C.P. and C.A. for Chicago City Police and Citizens Association. It also has a number 235 in the stock which is in the correct range of 296 guns given to the police by the citizens association as described in "History of the Chicago Police" by John Flinn 1887.
I would really like to find more information on these. The only thing I have found is an article by Bruce Green in Trapdoor News from 8/12. Are there any more publications on these guns? Can someone tell me the approximate value of this Trapdoor? Any info would help!!
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[Discus420]

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[Discus420]

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[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry, I'd say Mr. Green pretty well covered it, beyond doing new research, starting with Google, etc..

Most collectors seem to prefer their US martial arms to be "as issued", not cut-down, but a Chicago history buff could easily put a different slant on things.

I don't mean to be rude or negative, but concerns regarding value are best settled before bidding at auction, not afterwards. What did you pay? I would not have bid over $500, but that is a personal choice on my part, plus, I already have a very nice M66, and do not live in Chicago.

Nice looking rifle - wonder if all the mods (stock considerably altered) were done at the same time? Rod MAY be a repro, hard to tell for sure. One view looks a little "iffy", but others seem OK.

[Discus420]

thanks again Dick I appreciate it I was hoping to find more written info but I guess thats is not the case

[Tom Trevor]

When all avenues have been covered its time to dig on your own. Have you contacted the Chicago police departments historian or museum? These might result in more information?

[JB White]

You sure have your work cut out for you. Nowhere in my books or bringing up online pdf files am I able to find "Chicago City Police". The names Chicago Police, Chicago Police Force, and Chicago Police Department were used in the post 1874 era, but the word CITY is either buried, or maybe non-existant in any official writings. The term "constabulary" was often used but that was pre-Civil War

In regard to the Citizens Association, that might be a place for you to start. I chose the year 1874 as that's when they began. In the aftermath the Second Chicago Fire. The Great Fire of 1871 launched a tremendous rebuilding program with new fire codes. The work was done from Downtown up into the North Side as that was the burn area. Workers were discussing unionization in ernest then. In 1874 another fire wiped out a good sized portion of the South Side. The CA was formed in 1874 by area employers to put down the perceived threats of organized labor.
It's too easy to guess why they would arm/rearm a policing force which typically carried only truncheons and small pistols.
However, the Chicago CA was also clandestinely involved with the Pinkertons to help suppress those strikes and protests.

Given that, I'm handing you another path to blaze. Chicago is in Cook County and the Pinkerton agency was based right next door. Perhaps a connection to Cook County/Pinkertons???? Only a guess because I'm unable to find Chicago CITY Police in any other references aside from those related to Trapdoors. That and the circumstances involving the CA during the timeframe for the rifles.

As suggested, contacting the CPD historian, or the Chicago Historical Society might produce a more direct lead. Even putting you back to a possible forgotten and all but lost former Police title.
My curiosity is certainly piqued and I'll likely do a little more looking on my own.

Good luck and have fun!

[Dan Shapiro]

Nice looking rifle!

[Tom Trevor]

Their is one for sale now at gunauction.com item number 14445481 and a write up on them. Watch the sale that should establish a value for you.

[Dick Hosmer]

Pictures are of the SAME gun - what's going on here??????

[Discus420]

Pictures are of the SAME gun - what's going on here??????

I needed the money.........

[Tom Trevor]

Discus420 do you live in the Simi Valley area?

[Mark Daiute]

That is a rifle I would like to own because I like the cartridge, I like to shoot and I think it would be nice to hunt with. It would go nicely with my untouched 1866.

[Discus420]

Discus420 do you live in the Simi Valley area?

No Colorado

[Edatbeach]

I just got this Chicago City Police M66 short rifle at auction it was sold as a "Springfield 2nd Model Allin Trapdoor Conversion of 1866". Its is a Bannerman conversion as it has a filled in middle barrel spring and the cleaning rod is not threaded. It is Marked C.C.P. and C.A. for Chicago City Police and Citizens Association. It also has a number 235 in the stock which is in the correct range of 296 guns given to the police by the citizens association as described in "History of the Chicago Police" by John Flinn 1887.
I would really like to find more information on these. The only thing I have found is an article by Bruce Green in Trapdoor News from 8/12. Are there any more publications on these guns? Can someone tell me the approximate value of this Trapdoor? Any info would help!!

200 of these short rifles came from NYC dealer Schuyler, Hartley & Graham, not Bannerman.
On May 11, 1878, SH&G sold 100 "Allin Rifles & Bayts [sic] Bright 50/70 Refinished," to dealer E.E. Eaton in Chicago. Eaton purchased large amounts of military ordnance from SH&G in that time period.
The rifles are described specifically as "Rifles cut down 5-1/2 in., front sight brazed on, stock tip 2-3/4 in. from muzzle, 2 round bands. Lower [swivel] & middle swivel on middle band and band springs, other description same as the regular rifle."
On Oct. 14, SH&G sold and shipped another 100 Allin 50/70 rifles, not described but likely short rifles because in all other cases the “Long Allins” were specifically described.

Other descriptive documentation shows that these short rifles from SH&G had stocks "...refinished off to appear like a 45 cal stock," i.e. the stock flats were rounded off.

All this from my personal research in the SH&G records.