Frazier's Patent 50-70 cartridge box

[Fred]

Well, it could be - but the original block would have been for .50-70. Looks like a nice specimen.

Thanks Dick!

[cwbuff]

Here are some pics of mine. I use it when I shoot my 2nd Allin and Sharps Carbine conversion.

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[Fred]

Neat cartridge box!!!

[Major Tom]

Fred, thanks for the photos! But, everytime you post photos of your collection I have to change my shirt because of extreme drooling! 8-)

[Fred]

Fred, thanks for the photos! But, everytime you post photos of your collection I have to change my shirt because of extreme drooling! 8-)

[Fred]

Yes, NY used its own unique configuration Remington rolling block rifle in .50-70 Government. It has a 36" barrel, and a notably high hammer.

I thought I responded to your post long ago but I couldn't find it. So, Thank You again for the great photos of that Rolling Block!!!

[kab]

Used mine for years with my '84 - thought it was odd that it only was bored for 18 rounds ! (mine is stamped RI)

-kab

[jaie5070]

Sweet boxes. One more thing I didn't know about. The one thing I do find irritating about the NY rolling block is the safety feature.

[bruce]

That is a very nice historical artifact. Sincerely. bruce.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sweet boxes. One more thing I didn't know about. The one thing I do find irritating about the NY rolling block is the safety feature.

As an aside, the "locking action" which IS clumsy, and often mis-described, was also used on the 10,000 1871 "Army" models made by Springfield, though with a more normal hammer.

[butlersrangers]

That Rolling-Block 'safety feature', (dropping to 1/2 cock, when the block was closed), IIRC was designed by Erskine S. Allin. I can't help but think he had a 'vested interest' and was put in the strange position of 'improving' a competitor's action. Maybe some of the clumsiness was intentional?

There was an alleged problem with 'sensitive' primers firing, when the unsupported Rolling-Block was snapped shut. Sharp's Rifle Co. advertising exploited this.

I believe there were some accidents with Navy Models of Remington design. The Navy (Models) firing pin was retracted simply by a coil spring. Rust, dirt, dried grease, and corrosion could jam the firing-pin in a 'protruding' position. Eventually, the Navy Rolling-Block Manual instructed running the thumb across the block-face to insure the firing pin had retracted.

E.S. Allin's modification and later Rolling-Block models had various devices, (cams or levers), to positively retract the Firing-Pin.

[Edatbeach]

The halfcock safety feature was designed by W.S. Smoot, patent no. 120,788. A former ordnance officer, he was at that time in the employment of Remington.

[Dick Hosmer]

That Rolling-Block 'safety feature', (dropping to 1/2 cock, when the block was closed), IIRC was designed by Erskine S. Allin. I can't help but think he had a 'vested interest' and was put in the strange position of 'improving' a competitor's action. Maybe some of the clumsiness was intentional?

There was an alleged problem with 'sensitive' primers firing, when the unsupported Rolling-Block was snapped shut. Sharp's Rifle Co. advertising exploited this.

I believe there were some accidents with Navy Models of Remington design. The Navy (Models) firing pin was retracted simply by a coil spring. Rust, dirt, dried grease, and corrosion could jam the firing-pin in a 'protruding' position. Eventually, the Navy Rolling-Block Manual instructed running the thumb across the block-face to insure the firing pin had retracted.

E.S. Allin's modification and later Rolling-Block models had various devices, (cams or levers), to positively retract the Firing-Pin.

Unfortunately, to be nit-pickingly (is that a word?) correct, Chuck's response perpetuates the mis-description mentioned above. The hammer does NOT drop to "half-cock" which would be a restrained (and thus friction-free) position. The hammer is simply released so as to DRAG on the breechblock. It 'works', from a safety standpoint, but is awkward.

[butlersrangers]

I am sorry I may have given a 'bum rap' to E.S. Allin, whose 'cartouche' appears on the model 1871 (Springfield made) .50-70 Rolling-Block rifles. I did not know about W.S. Smoot, his patent and employment by Remington Arms. It is good to clear up old myths.

I use to own a U.S. Navy Carbine (from 1868-1869) in .50 Carbine. With its 23 inch barrel, spring retracted firing pin, simple 'stud' extractor, and sling swivels, it was a very fast operating and convenient arm. It had to be great for Naval Landing Parties.

Later, I had a model 1871 Springfield Rolling-Block. It was a very clumsy arm by comparison with the carbine. The hammer rotating a bit forward to support the block, upon closing the block, (and the mechanical noise!) was a bit disconcerting, especially when familiar with other Rolling-Block models. I have never liked the U.S. model 1871 or N.Y. variations.

Thank you, Dick Hosmer, for clarifying the actual function of this R-B variation.

Also, my apologies to the O.P. That is a very handsome cartridge box and thanks for sharing!

[Major Tom]

Really great Fred. Thanks for showing it!