1884 rod bayonet

[Carlsr]

Anyone have an idea on the value of an 1884 RB updated to1888 configuration? I have seen one posted for sale that is in good condition. Normal handling marks stated as having good rifling.
Thanks

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm really not keeping up with prices, other than to note that they seem to be going down. I'd use Al's data as a pretty darn good average source. Everyone trusts him (and rightly so) and, more importantly, his stuff moves so he must have his finger pretty close to the pulse of the market. As to the 1884/1888, it might be just me but I don't see anything really special about them. An interesting talking point to be sure, but as to adding value - I'd think it would be minimal at best - kinda like the Krag 1898C after conversion to 1899 - no big deal; rarity is gone. There is a substantial list of 1884 numbers available, so, if the converted 1888 was one of them, that might be a small plus.

[Carlsr]

Thanks Dick. I checked in your book for the serial # but it is not listed. Serial is 320076 and asking price is 2150.00.
I did however run into this 1867 cadet???? on GB. Here is the link https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869032440
The seller says that the stock is not original but of the period. As per your book it looks as though all other parts are correct from the photos given.
Could this be one of the 424 made??

[Dick Hosmer]

Well, the metal certainly looks right, from what is shown, even down to the cleaning rod - but the stock clearly isn't. I do not think it is a "fake" though - just an attempt (and quite possibly an old one) of repairing something to extend its' useful life. If you have the skill and the patience, it looks like there is enough wood there to form the size and shape of an original, Of course, it then WOULD be (at least somewhat of) a "fake". One of those horrible "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. At least the price is not unreasonable, and it's a BIG hole to fill - they're not laying around under every bush.

[Carlsr]

Thanks Dick.
Yeah, I haven't seen any hiding under a bush lately lol!!
I have an 1869 cadet, a few more of those made. Would the stock on an 1869 be the same measurements as an 1867?
I would at least have a canvase to go by.

[Dick Hosmer]

No, not at all - the stock is REALLY slimmed down to use the thin lock, smaller bands, shorter band springs, etc. Also the length of pull is about an inch shorter. It would be quite the undertaking and you'd have to be very careful, but I think there is sufficient surplus wood to make it possible. You could start by fixing the length of pull (which really stands out) and leaving the front which would need complete retapering - unless that was already part of the repair. The bands really are smaller - the front one being almost round.

[Carlsr]

Thanks again Dick.
There is a short discription in Al's book which explains 18 special parts for this cadet. Funny how much trouble Springfield went through only to produce 424 rifles.
On closer review of the pictures posted by the seller I noticed a couple discrepancies.
1, the hammer has been altered as some material had been removed from the underside to clear the thumb latch.
2, The thumb latch is not correct as it is rounded like the 1873 and there looks to be some chips in it.
So this leaves me to wonder what else may be incorrect as I'm not able to take my own measurements. For all I know the barrel may be a cut down ??
At least the dated lock plate and butt plate look to be correct???
Think I will let this one pass 😁

[Mark Daiute]

I'll be up front and let you know that I did not dive into the the details in this thread after tha sking price for this rifle. In my humble opinion, at 2150, it is more than double, a lot more than double normal retail.

[Kragrifle]

Is there any reason to think the 1884 RR bayonet rifle was ever converted to 1888 configuration?

[Dick Hosmer]

Absolutely! In fact, that was precisely the fate of the vast majority of them.

[Kragrifle]

Since the 1888 stock is about 0.20 shorter than the 1884 RBS, was a whole new stock used?

[Dick Hosmer]

As far as I know, yes. Have never seen, or heard of, a 3xxxxx M88RRB with the narrow rod inletting. The latch base was replaced, so there was no reason to handle the rebuilds differently from new production - other than to harvest the savings from reusing what metal parts they could. Have never seen an 1888 with conventional trigger guard either.

[Kragrifle]

Somewhere I have what looks like an 1884 TD with two cartouches, two piece triggerguard and 88 style RR bayonet. I’ll try to find it and post photos. Would be interested in opinions.

[Dick Hosmer]

The topic has come up on TRIC - Al has mentioned a hybrid (believe it belongs to Craig Riesch) with some "differences" which is stamped 1888 and 1889. The rod is a bit different. I wasn't counting oddballs and one-offs in my post #12 - just meant to say that, AFAIK, the "production" '88s in '84 range were (as far as could be determined) '88 all the way, except for the serial.