Early 1873

[mr.j]

I have an early 1873 that has the off center U.S plate, three click tumbler has early long wrist stock slottless screws with first type rear and front sights. The breechblock is of the third type without eagle and has high arch square corners no case color present, Small U on rear band and larger U and front band, later 1879 rod. cartouche and circle P are present. Also marked in the wood E 19 right above the buttplate tang. I can only add the two mages now until i can find my charger but will add more. What do you guys think of this? Could all changes be official as it looks like all matching patina, Rifle sn shows 1875 it also has second type hammer 20200624_154841-2.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

Well. I was going to say that's just crusty enough to be the real McCoy. And it may well be - but you need to lose the M1884 band with clearance cut for the Buffington sight. I don't believe THAT rear sight has ever been off of the barrel. Don't clean the rifle up too much - if at all! The intermediate blocks (high arch with no eagle and low arch but still narrow) are the two scarcest - by far - "production" blocks to be found. That lower band is a puzzle - why it is there is anyone's guess; bands didn't need replacing very often!

[mr.j]

Thanks for your response. The person I got it from had a box of small parts mostly cleaning jigs but actually had the barrel band with small U which appeared to be to this rifle, it was all from an estate sale and that was all of the gun parts previous person had i was told. Im using the pics i was sent from friend whom i got it from, I did not clean anything much only some oil on metal and i did replace it with the correct lower band. I could clean the stock with some lemon oil though which wont hurt finish i think, but all looks like original finish on stock. I do have an early cleaning rod that i can replace it with but i would rather keep the one it came with since it all does look like its been together. sn50703. It does have a small strip of wood missing along side the left side of stock and tang screw is a bit buggered so sign that barrel was removed maybe resulting in wrong barrel band being put on by previous owner, My guess. all other screws look good.

[Dick Hosmer]

I have owned 49937 (completely original AFAIK) for well over 40 years, and it has the type 2 block, but I do NOT think we have "found" the turning point! Type two blocks are found well into the 70K range with some regularity. I've said this before but it bears repeating: SA was making TOOLS - they never heard the term "gun collector" - if it fit, and was serviceable condition it was used. Add that to the countless hands the guns have passed through, and it is a wonder that ANY specimen can be guaranteed virginity. FWIW, the scarcest "intermediate" block is the NARROW filled arch - which occur in the 85-95K area.

[Carlsr]

With that serial number should it not have a dated 2 click tumbler?
Also didn't the off center U.S. over Springfield show up around serial number 80000 or so?

[Dick Hosmer]

(1) Assuming you mean dated lock plate - maybe, but no on the two-notch tumbler, and (2) I am not aware of any "off-center" plate variation. If there is one, I have completely missed it for 50 years!

[45govt]

I am not aware of any "off-center" plate variation. If there is one, I have completely missed it for 50 years!

Could he mean the off center US over SPRINGFIELD

Capture.JPG

[Carlsr]

Yes, the off center U.S. over Springfield which is what I said. Al just had one for sale on his site. I believe they appeared around 80000. The 2 click tumbler was up to 28000 for carbine's and as late as 78500 for rifles. This information is from The 45 70 Springfield by Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch.

[Carlsr]

And yes Dick, I ment dated lock plate not a dated tumbler LOL!!
Sorry for the typo there😁

[mr.j]

[/attach][ATTACH=CONFIG]47947[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47948[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47949[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47950[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47951[/ATTACH]

[mr.j]

Other pictures of markings

[mr.j]

With that serial number should it not have a dated 2 click tumbler?
Also didn't the off center U.S. over Springfield show up around serial number 80000 or so?

I would think this rifle was assembled around 1877 or early 1878 since most of the features show this, The off centered U.S, three click tumbler, the third type breechblock without eagle high arch, second type hammer, trigger guard with screw but with round pads on swivel not the pear shape that you usually see on these early rifles. My guess the later upper barrel band and cleaning rod was added later on in its life.

[mr.j]

Could he mean the off center US over SPRINGFIELD

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47946[/ATTACH]

I dont look for them but this is the second off centered U.S plate I came across few years ago, it was on a cutdown rifle with destroyed barrel so no harm done removing it.IMG_8416.JPG