M1879 Combination Tool Find

[TerryR]

I was looking thru my McKeever Ammo Pouches, that have been sitting on my shelf for years.
And behold, an M1879 Combination Tool was in one.
Also stamped "C".
Goes with my Carbine now.
Amazing what you find stashed in the gunroom, Lol.
What does the PIN do?
Thanks in advance.
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20211103_212141.jpg

[mr.j]

I believe the pin is used to knock loose a broken stuck bridle stud from the hole on lock plate, and from what I read to remove the barrel band springs. I do not think that is a "c stamp" just a marking left from when they forged them.

[JimF]

The pin is a ?tumbler punch.?
After the large screw in the hammer is removed, the pin is inserted, then tapped to remove the tumbler from the hammer without damage.
Notice the VERY SLIGHT ?hump? on the tool, opposite the pin.
This is the area to tap.
Also notice how the shoulder surrounding the pin fits within the hammer so as to NOT damage the finish of the hammer.
As noted above, the pin is also used to remove band springs.

Also . . . .that is NOT an ?open-end wrench? you see on the tool . . .
It is a ?mainspring vise? used to disassemble the lock.

Also notice . . .
The blade of the screw-driver has a convex tip . . . .to match the CONCAVE slots in the various screws of the weapon.
This was done in an attempt to curtail the screw-driver blade from slipping out and marring the screws/finish.

The people at the armory were VERY THOROUGH!, huh?

(Here we go AGAIN with the query marks instead of quotations! . . .When will this be fixed?)

[TerryR]

Thanks for the info! WOW, quite a Lil TOOL!
Yes, first sure, back in the day they were very thorough with QUALITY!
Very much ADMIRE that, as our future generations have lost that, sadly to say.
Thanks again for the help!
Sure made me HAPPY to find it!

[butlersrangers]

I've always wondered about the actual issue of the model-1879 Springfield Tool.

They can be obtained in 'bulk', still in original packing!

It was not one of the tools intended to fit in the tool storage-area of the McKeever Cartridge Box?

It is a useful item, but, raises some questions.

(Maybe, a lot of them didn't get handed-out, because the Ordnance Department didn't want soldiers and national guardsmen 'tinkering' and dismounting gun-locks, losing parts, and chipping stocks at the lock-mortise)?

There was not a lot of need to take the well protected and lubricated lock off of a model 1873 Springfield.
There was no reason for a 'non-armorer' to dismantle a 'trap-door' lock.

Back-in-the-day, soldiers just had to properly clean & oil the bore and surfaces that were visible.

Just some wild thoughts!

[Dick Hosmer]

I've always wondered about the actual issue of the model-1879 Springfield Tool.

They can be obtained in 'bulk', still in original packing!

It was not one of the tools intended to fit in the tool storage-area of the McKeever Cartridge Box?

It is a useful item, but, raises some questions.

(Maybe, a lot of them didn't get handed-out, because the Ordnance Department didn't want soldiers and national guardsmen 'tinkering' and dismounting gun-locks, losing parts, and chipping stocks at the lock-mortise)?

There was not a lot of need to take the well protected and lubricated lock off of a model 1873 Springfield.
There was no reason for a 'non-armorer' to dismantle a 'trap-door' lock.

Back-in-the-day, soldiers just had to properly clean & oil the bore and surfaces that were visible.

Just some wild thoughts!

How then do you rationalize the fact that such tools were issued with every rod-bayonet rifle, over 66,000 in all, counting the models of 1880/1884/1888?

[JimF]

I've always wondered about the actual issue of the model-1879 Springfield Tool. . . . . .

Looking back at what Ordnance had in mind on the subject, makes me wonder also . . . .

Given the level of intellect of the average trooper of the day, I wonder why he would be allowed to use the tool at all!

Allowing him to remove, and disassemble the lock seems well above his pay grade!

Just removing the lock from the mortise can do damage to the wood (place hammer at half-cock first) . . . Never mind disassembly of the lock proper!

[butlersrangers]

How things are envisioned in theory and how things get carried out in actual practice can be very different matters.

I don't rightly know.

I was just speculating (and thinking out loud) as to why large numbers of model 1879 tools exist, never issued and still in Springfield packing?

It is a neat and useful item!

[Dick Hosmer]

They were supposed to be issued with the guns - that was either not followed, or they made a large over-run, possibly assuming the loss rate might be high, or even as a 'make-work' fill-in.

Two things we can ALL agree on - they're DAMN handy, and there IS a surplus.

[mr.j]

The pin is a ?tumbler punch.?
After the large screw in the hammer is removed, the pin is inserted, then tapped to remove the tumbler from the hammer without damage.
Notice the VERY SLIGHT ?hump? on the tool, opposite the pin.
This is the area to tap.
Also notice how the shoulder surrounding the pin fits within the hammer so as to NOT damage the finish of the hammer.
As noted above, the pin is also used to remove band springs.

Also . . . .that is NOT an ?open-end wrench? you see on the tool . . .
It is a ?mainspring vise? used to disassemble the lock.

Also notice . . .
The blade of the screw-driver has a convex tip . . . .to match the CONCAVE slots in the various screws of the weapon.
This was done in an attempt to curtail the screw-driver blade from slipping out and marring the screws/finish.

The people at the armory were VERY THOROUGH!, huh?

(Here we go AGAIN with the query marks instead of quotations! . . .When will this be fixed?)

Now that i really looked at my tool I see the punch goes all the way to bottom of tumbler, Always thought it was the hump that pin sticks out of is what pushed the tumbler out since it fits perfect. seen the news about Dick Hosmer as i was about to reply to this post, Good thing to hear Mr.Hosmer is good, At first i thought Butlerstrangers post is what stressed him out.

[butlersrangers]

Dick and I are forum friends. Discussing and pondering is a good route to learning.

I suppose, we can all agree that 'blind', clumsy, unskillful disassembly has permanently marred many handsome historic arms.
The U.S. Military Ordnance Department certainly knew this. Military units did have trained Armorers with proper tools and spare parts to execute minor repairs.

[Fred]

Just removing the lock from the mortise can do damage to the wood (place hammer at half-cock first) . . . Never mind disassembly of the lock proper!

An old timer taught me almost half a century ago to back off and loosen the tang screw a tad first before attempting to remove the lock.
Also loosen the mounting screws of the lock plate a tad before attempting to remove the barrel.
He said that this relieves the Pinching effect upon the part wanting to be removed and will reduce wood chipping off.

[Dick Hosmer]

Loosening the tang screw and the lock screws is an EXCELLENT way to remove both the the lock and the trigger guard (which, BTW, you should NEVER do unless you absolutely have to). In both cases you can tap on the screw heads to start the pieces out, all the while checking for impending chips, proceeding a couple of threads at a time. I always full-cock the hammer before taking out the lock - have seen case where half-cock wasn't enough to raise the spring out of the way.

[Fred]

Excellent advice from another Old Timer.
Thanks Dick!