1885 Remington Lee Navy

[Dick Hosmer]

Didn't know you had a Hotchkiss carbine. First or Second? If the former, what rear sight does it have, plain TD, or marked HC on base and leaf?

[5MadFarmers]

Wohhh! - where to start?

You're not going to like this....

SA changed the nomenclature to "Model 1877" when they came out with the thicker wrist stock. Technically, this lasted until the Model 1884 carbine marking showed up , shortly after adoption of the M1884 Buffington sight. That point really doesn't affect the sight differences during the 1878/1879 period at issue here.

Technically the 1877 to the 1884 misses the 1879 which they listed as a model.

I explain why that is true in my soon to be released book.

[Dick Hosmer]

You are right. . . . .

The moon has occasionally been described in print as being made of green cheese. That does not make it so.

I would not be totally amazed if - somewhere - you have found, in print, in contemporary literature, a reference to "Model 1879". But, are you sure it does not somehow refer to the sight(s) such as an enumeration, differentiated by style of sight, of rifles on hand somewhere? Or, that it actually reads "Model 1873 with the improvements of 1879", or some such?

I would normally think to define "model", in this case, as to being the physical mark on the gun, but that would not cover the Model 1877 Carbine, which is so noted in print, but not on the weapon. So, it's fair game for all sorts of loose or little-used interpretations, which did not stick.

And - in any event you have found such a reference, it would be most useful in a saloon wagering gotcha (kinda like the old one about which football team had made more appearances in the Rose Bowl - the poor putz will agonize over Michigan, or USC, or Ohio State, etc., when any common fool KNOWS the correct answer is Pasadena City College - it's their home field!) than as an indicator of what was widely used and followed.

End of rant, for now. But, the denouement had better be really good - not some cheap gotcha!

[Kragrifle]

Take a piece of rod stock longer than the cleaning rod. Grind the tip to look like a screwdriver. Now slide this into the stock and slowly turn the rod. Sometimes the problem is the small threaded piece of metal that is the RR stop is plugged with dirt. Sometimes you will need to drive this piece out of the stock to clean it properly. This will require you remove the triggerguard and barrel. You can see the bottom of this stop under the triggerguard. You can carefully drill a hole to let you use a small punch to drive the stop out from the barrel channel. This will let you clean it and check to threads. The threads on a Peabody rod are the same as the Remington Lee. So, if you decide to shorten it, find a machinest who can remove a section of the rod and weld the threaded end back on. These threads are a type that you will not find a tap to match. Cannot remember what they were called, Whitworth??

[5MadFarmers]

Didn't know you had a Hotchkiss carbine. First or Second? If the former, what rear sight does it have, plain TD, or marked HC on base and leaf?

Second. HC marked on both.

You are right. . . . .

The moon has occasionally been described in print as being made of green cheese. That does not make it so.

No, not a toss away reference. Every gun made from 1879 to 1884 are Model of 1879. Excepting oddities.

Dick, I don't know how to emphasize that strongly enough. They're not altered. They're not M-1873s. They're not M-1877s though those still existed. They're M-1879.

All of them.

[Dick Hosmer]

Guess I'll have to wait to see your reasoning/backup/proof/rationale/etc. I have, I believe, the full run of RCOs during that period - and, believe it or not, I've actually read a lot of them - not much on small arms in some volumes - but sure don't recall seeing anything like that, whatsoever.

Did not say they were "altered", simply that as new parts were developed (lipped hammer 1880, grooved trigger 1883, etc.) they were installed on new production arms - yielding the "with the improvements of XXXX" statement. There would be a huge reason to have designated a new model in late 1878, given the width and profile changes but they didn't. Before I knew better, I always thought that the "1878" blocks delineated that change - the "Model 1878". Not!

[5MadFarmers]

I set my sights on next summer but I think I'll have it out before Christmas. Somebody has been working on their second book for a decade.

What do you expect for something that took me two months start to finish?

The "before Christmas" is the printing delay. Writing it is at a month and a half. I'll be done in two weeks. Two months. Why rush it? Because I want it done. It'd be improved if I took longer but it's already 95% done. Random pictures of field gear and group photos are all that remains. The other books are going to take longer. A lot longer.

[Dick Hosmer]

Wait until you get to be 76, have a semi-invalid wife (sincerely hope THAT never happens!) with whom you are running a struggling business, on a fixed income, and you may find your energy and enthusiasm levels somewhat dampened! It'll get done when it gets done, or, it won't.

[5MadFarmers]

Dick, that wasn't meant to be rude. It was more of a "when will it be printed as I'm waiting" comment. I've been looking forward to it for a very long time. No, that's not a dig either - picture a kid wanting to open a Christmas present. Not a bad thing.

Whereas I'm going the McDonalds route. Push it out the door quick and then move onto the next order.

[Dick Hosmer]

No offense taken - I am my own worst enemy by far.

Hope it is worth the wait - anyone who liked the first should like the second (which was SUPPOSED to be the only, until I got the wild hair about the rifles preceding the 1873, and Poyer said go for it) except that the subject matter will be more exotic.

WAY fewer people will be saying "hey, that's just like mine", or buying it as a purchasing guide. Book 2 will be more for the trapdoor nerd.

[da gimp]

I've been waiting on both, plus Rick Boreckey's on M1 Garand & 1903 stocks, Wayne's M1 Garand IHC book, & Tuna's M1 Carbine book for some years................... wait'll you have 4 major chest surgeries for lung cancer in one year, with more scheduled............... & I still want to see & read all of them, when I don't know if even 1 of my 4 kids would even care to read any of em....... & I still thirst for the insights you guys give....................