Catridge O.A.L. recomendations...??

[Don Steele]

I've started shooting BP rounds in my 1873 Trapdoor rifle. So far, all I've used are some rounds I loaded for my Browning BPCR. The 491 gn. NEI "Badger-Browning" bullet is loaded all the way down to the crimp groove for COL of about 2.64". I'm wondering what the experience is with the old Trapdoors...how long must I go with my C.O.L. to get the nose of the bullet to be "just off the lands"..and is there any advantage in doing so ??
Thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

The shortest jump possible is ALWAYS the best, but I'd think the most critical dimension is bullet diameter, since TDs can run up to .460 and more. Your Browning is likely a perfect .458; the TD probably is not. You also want to keep your alloy soft, anywhere from 16-1 to 30-1.

[Don Steele]

I agree completely Dick. I made up a dummy round to check for distance-to-lands. I stopped at 2.94" COL and still had not reached them with the nose of the bullet.
My NEI mold is throwing them at .459-.460. All the rounds tested to date were sized .459 and as you pointed out...they work GREAT in the Badger barrel on my Browning. I use 30:1 alloy. I will be loading some "as cast" for the next test. Depending on those results..a little "beagling" might be in order to get a couple of thousandths extra out of the NEI mold. I also have the Lee 405 mold..it throws .458 and I knew that isn't likely to be my best option.
Making one change at a time....perhaps C.O.L. questions will wait until I've optimized everything else.

[musculus]

1. The SAME loading techniques/bullets, etc. that you use for ANY BPCR rifle will work EQUALLY well in a TD rifle. There is NOTHING "special" or "unique" about loadingf for the TD rifle (despite what a fairly well-known, but mostly worthless "Loading for the TD rifle" book advises).

2. What Richard (virtually always) fails to clarify is that the BORE diameters (the HOLE they DRILL first) in TD's tends to remarkably consistent at very close to .450" (yes, you read that right-tight) so that making up bullets that fit GROOVE depth (which is ALSO fairly consistent around .459/.460--with some occasional variances) is not nearly as critical as non-reloaders (like Dick) would seek to impress upon you. I have fired a BUNCH of cast lead bullets in TDs and (exactly) NEVER have I ever fired one sized bigger than .459 and typically get 2MOA or a bit LESS without much trouble (although I am picky about getting nice barrels on my TD's to begin with). Tell you what, go find a .45 acp bullet (.452), now (carefully) stick it ON the muzzle. 99% chance it doesn't go in at all (unless your barrel is toasty/worn already).

3. WHATEVER you have been shooting in your 1885, go ahead and (simply) shoot them in the TD. Betcha 11 dollars they will shoot FINE to very well (or better).

[older than dirt]

I`m with musclus on this one. On my TD a .454 round ball will just sit part way in the muzzle & would have to be hammered in. I shoot at a 100yds & hit 8 in paper plates all day with my reloads ( Rem .457 JFNSP with Reloder 7 behind it).

[Dick Hosmer]

It would be nice if musculus could find a way to express himself without SHOUTING almost every other word, or personally denigrating others.

Don't believe I have ever said that anything that apparently works so well for him, was wrong for him, in his rifles.

I have advocated generalizations, such as short bullet jump, soft alloys, and and proper groove fit, etc., which should help anyone. For the record, there is published data on TD grooves (and bores) which is not in agreement with his statements. Tom Trevor?