Early Trapdoor question

[patio]

Picked one up in the 29XXX range. The bore is ok and shootable. High arch breechblock. Can I shoot the .45-70-500 loads in this rifle?

Thank you,

Pat

[Dick Hosmer]

That's the weakest version of what is not a "strong" action at best. Most people prefer to shoot the later (post-1878) guns with wider receiver and low arch block, and, the 500gr. bullet was not adopted until 1881, well after the changeover.

If it were me, I'd hang it on the wall - early rifles, especially if in un-rebuilt configuration, are desirable collectibles. I'd go with a later one for shooting - something in the 200-300,000 range, where the selection is wide, and the historical value is low.

[Rick B]

Patio, where in Ohio are you? If you do not have another Trapdoor keep your eyes open on Arms list as they have started popping up and all around $500.00 which is great for a nice shooter. Rick B

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2044027/cleveland-ohio-antiques-for-sale-trade--springfield-trapdoor-model-of-1884

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2132655/akron-antiques-for-sale--model-1884-springfield-45-70

[older than dirt]

That's the weakest version of what is not a "strong" action at best. Most people prefer to shoot the later (post-1878) guns with wider receiver and low arch block, and, the 500gr. bullet was not adopted until 1881, well after the changeover.

If it were me, I'd hang it on the wall - early rifles, especially if in un-rebuilt configuration, are desirable collectibles. I'd go with a later one for shooting - something in the 200-300,000 range, where the selection is wide, and the historical value is low.

Sorry to hi-jack this post but. OK, my TD was made in 1888, so this makes it a wide receiver rifle am I correct? The breach block in it is a high arch 1873 stamped block. Does this mean it has the wrong block in it?

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry, but yes, your block is not correct.

Width changed at 96300, and blocks already had the filled arch by that point, even though they were narrow - I'd guess your 1888-made rifle would be something over 400000.

[John Sukey]

I would point out that while the high arched blocks were early, they would not have been changed just because a heavier bullet entered service. I once owned 35 of the rifles (before I got enfielditis)

[Fred]

In my experience, when I hand loaded 500 grain bullets to shoot in my early high arched breechblock 1873, I found that the longer 500 grain bullet would bite into the rifling upon trying to chamber a round and the cartridge wouldn't go far enough into the chamber to close the breech block. I had to file down the contour of each bullet at its front so that they would clear the rifling. These early rifles were designed to shoot the cartridge with the shorter 405 grain bullet that didn't stick out of the case as far as the 500 grain bullets. Also, the sights are calibrated for the 405 grain bullet.

[Dick Hosmer]

I would point out that while the high arched blocks were early, they would not have been changed just because a heavier bullet entered service. I once owned 35 of the rifles (before I got enfielditis)

And they weren't - the receiver and block were strengthened WAY before the bullet was changed.

[Rick B]

One more neat toy for original Poster. Rick B

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2124382/cleveland-ohio-antiques-for-sale--1884-springfield-trapdoor-45-70--officers-carbine-style

[psteinmayer]

OK, my TD was made in 1888, so this makes it a wide receiver rifle am I correct? The breach block in it is a high arch 1873 stamped block. Does this mean it has the wrong block in it?

My 1873 also has a wide receiver and an early high-arched block. It also has an earlier 50-70 stock and other incorrect components. As it turns out, it's most likely a Bannerman rifle (as identified by Dick Hosmer from pictures and measurements taken). For whatever it's worth...

[older than dirt]

Sorry, but yes, your block is not correct.

Width changed at 96300, and blocks already had the filled arch by that point, even though they were narrow - I'd guess your 1888-made rifle would be something over 400000.

Yes, it`s 410*** range. So with the wide receiver & the high arch narrow block after I`ve put over 500 rounds of 405g Jacketed bullets in front of 34g of RL-7 in the last 2 years, you are suggesting it`s unsafe to shoot because it has the wrong block in it?

[Dick Hosmer]

That's not what I said - on two levels. One, I made the general comment (which is true) that the high block in the narrow receiver is the weakest TD, but I did not say it was unsafe to shoot. Two, the fact that your TD has the wrong block in it is a collector issue, not a shooter issue (other than that it is the weaker of the two blocks). Never said it was unsafe.