Reloads

[13Echo]

The sights are tough, with the 1884 peep being the best but still tough for older eyes. I have a set of glasses that are ground to get a sharp front sight focus with the target in relatively good focus. It makes it possible to shoot the old timers with some expectation of accuracy. I still have a hard time with the ridiculously small notch and narrow front blade on my 1898 Krag and an even worse time on the 1868 Springfield rear v notch. It helps to blacken the blade and notch with soot and occasionally I'll paint the rear or front white (depends on the target color) to get some contrast in the notch. Seems to help.

I can't help with whitepowder loads as all I shoot are loaded with the holy black.

Jerry Liles

[carbineone1964]

I have one I shoot and the sights work very well for me on it, even with my bad eyes. My 1816 Harpers Ferry. The sights are very easy to use or I should say sight. They only have a front one

Very simple concept..

I did hit a 2 x2 foot board with the Old Gal at 100 yards one day just for a giggle..

I did put a little white paint on the front sight of the Trapdoor. It helped a little but not alot..


I may try some Black once. I looked at using trailboss. But isnt that a real slow burning powder? Thanks

[SgtSki]

I was using a model 1884 with a buffington rear sight. The range was 100 yds. Point of aim was center visible mass using a fine sight picture with the front sight all the way down in the rear sight and off the white (as good as I could estimate 8 inches) of the target. So it was the equivalent of a head shot at 100yds with the point of aim the heart.
Add to that it shoots about 6 inches to the right so the hold off was to the left. Some I guessed good some not as good. Any way it was fun.

http://www.njacc.info/images/2013/MemorialDay/MD-8.jpghttp://www.njacc.info/images/2013/MemorialDay/MD-8.jpg

[11mm]

The sights are tough, with the 1884 peep being the best but still tough for older eyes. I have a set of glasses that are ground to get a sharp front sight focus with the target in relatively good focus. It makes it possible to shoot the old timers with some expectation of accuracy. I still have a hard time with the ridiculously small notch and narrow front blade on my 1898 Krag and an even worse time on the 1868 Springfield rear v notch. It helps to blacken the blade and notch with soot and occasionally I'll paint the rear or front white (depends on the target color) to get some contrast in the notch. Seems to help.

I can't help with whitepowder loads as all I shoot are loaded with the holy black.



Jerry Liles

I have surrendered on both the 1884 (Buffington) and the Krag (1901 sight) and have machined tall front sight blades (.055) replacing the GI blades. It sure does increase the satisfaction in shooting these rifles, and it is not a permanent alteration. The original blades go in the butt for future generations to restore, if they like. Neither of my rifles are highly collectible, but the shoot well...better than I do.

[Devil Dog]

I'm surprised no one has brought up "barrel leading" with cast lead bullets. I would stay BELOW 1,000 fps to avoid leading. I use 20 gr of 2400 when using cast lead bullets.
1,562 fps is way to fast for a cast lead bullet.

[13Echo]

Leading in the Trapdoor occurs with using too small diameter bullet that does not fit the barrel and/or too hard an alloy that won't allow the bullet to "bump up" or conform to the barrel. If the bullet doesn't fit then gas blow by will cause cutting of the base of the bullet and deposit lead in the bore. If the bullet fits and has a decent lube you will not get leading to any significant degree at 1200fps or even more. This generally means in these rifles a soft alloy (typically 30:1 to 16:1 lead to tin) cast at 0.460 or more diameter with enough powder charge to cause the bullet to "bump up" and fill the bore.

Jerry Liles

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm surprised no one has brought up "barrel leading" with cast lead bullets. I would stay BELOW 1,000 fps to avoid leading. I use 20 gr of 2400 when using cast lead bullets.
1,562 fps is way to fast for a cast lead bullet.

While 1500+ might be a tad hot unless everything (bullet to bore size, lube, etc.) was spot on, you need to remember that issue ammo ran between 1150-1350 depending on the loading, this taken from data on the original packaging, so the "below 1000" comment seems incorrect. Have you measured your bore size, and what alloy are you using?

And, as to 1562 being "way too fast for a cast lead bullet", there are records of people being quite successful with (admittedly very hard, and with gas-checks) cast bullets in the .30-'06, up into the low 2000s, and that's in a 1-10" twist (the .45-70 is 1-22") so I do not believe that velocity alone is the issue, at all.

[carbineone1964]

I have some lead bullets that are 2/6/92 They seem to shoot pretty well in my Trapdoor. What the heck is that makeup? Is that a soft cast bullet? Hard? Maybe they are too hard? I think they are 2% tin 6% antimony and 92 % lead..

I do not want to be using something that may damage the barrel..

Thanks very much..

[Dale in Louisiana]

I have a couple of these old things. They're a hoot to load for and to shoot. I cast up my own bullets, naturally. The gun just begs for big soft-cast bullets.

Here's a great source for info: Loading Cartridges for Original 45-70 Springfield Most of the data in this book is oriented towards replicating the original black powder loads. The author recommends soft bullets. The original arsenal loads called out a 20:1 lead-tin alloy, with NO antimony. Part of the magic of the soft bullet and the black powder was that the pressure curve was fast and the 'kick' would expand the soft bullet to fill the grooves better.

Past that point, you can find loads for dozens of powders that will push a bullet out of a trapdoor safely and with accuracy.

Cast bullets from a couple of hundred grains to over five hundred will work, and velocities can range from a few hundred FPS to over eleven or twelve hundred. At the velocities you'd expect to push things out of a trapdoor, gas checks aren't needed. The limiting factor, safety-wise, is the fact that this old action should be limited to low-pressure loads.

The groove diameter of barrels can be greater than .460. Many factory lead bullets are .458, and that leads to leading problems.

dale in Louisiana

[coonhound]

Trapdoor Reloads

I use 48 Gr. of Varget behind 500 Gr. Gov't bullet (Round Nose) and 1 gr. of cotton on top of powder. Works great and I can keep 1 to 1.5 inch groups from a rest

[coonhound]

Oops - correction. Make that thirty-eight (NOT 48!!!) Grains of Varget!!

[carbineone1964]

1 to 1.5 groups at what range? If that is 100 yards. That is pretty amazing shooting..

[John Sukey]

you fo;ls might want to keep in mind that there are two DIFFERENT loadings for the 45-70 round
One for the trapdoor, and one for the Winchester lever action

[Dale in Louisiana]

you fo;ls might want to keep in mind that there are two DIFFERENT loadings for the 45-70 round
One for the trapdoor, and one for the Winchester lever action

Make that THREE. Trapdoor and old rifles. Modern lever actions. Ruger #1's

You can load the daylights out of a Ruger and it will hold together. Don't ask me how I know, but God looks out for some of us.

dale in Louisiana