H & R "Officer's Carbine"???

[butlersrangers]

I have been tempted a couple of times to purchase one of the H & R Officer Springfield Carbine repros. for a fun shooter. However, I seem to recall that there was a problem with their block construction or safety. What is the Whole Story?


H&R carbine.jpg

[mhb]

They weren't a carbine...

but an Officer's Model Sporting Rifle, copied after the Springfield Armory-produced ones.
I have owned and worked on these and other H&R trapdoor copies, and the only mechanical problem I am aware of - not necessarily a safety issue - is that, unlike the original weapons, the cam and spindle assembly are not a one-piece forging. Instead, the H&R cam is held in place on the spindle with a fairly small setscrew - this can work loose, permitting the latch thumbpiece and spindle to rotate independently of the cam itself. This can result in the loose cam locking the breechblock closed, and it is a real pain, requiring imagination, creative use of tools and a wide variety of expletives to get it open again. If the cam setscrew is loctited in place, it is less likely to become loose.

mhb - Mike

[butlersrangers]

Thanks Mike for the explanation and clarification. Do you know if an original cam and latch would fit in the H & R Officer Rifle block?

[mhb]

I believe not...

because the H&R breechblock does not have the detachable plate at the rear which allows installation and removal of the cam and spindle assembly, while the 2-piece H&R cam and spindle can be installed by inserting the cam first, then the spindle.
I never tried to install an original breechblock assembly in an H&R, but would be surprised if it would fit properly.

mhb - Mike

[Dick Hosmer]

Having a hard time getting it open is only the dull side of the story!

The exciting part comes when (due to the same reason - loose screw) the cam holds up and does not engage fully when you lower the latch. Upon firing, the block comes open, sometimes (at least) half-cocking the hammer, and the case goes a LONG way back. It is called the "auto-ejection" feature. Yes, I have personally experienced this - but only once! My laundry will vouch for that.

There are two fixes: First, pin the parts together so they cannot possibly rotate with respect to one another. Second, fit a complete SA block. The small bits are not interchangeable, due to the entirely different latch mounting design. One of the H&R bean-counters thought he'd found a corner to cut. They are damn lucky no one had the "AE" problem with a hot load that let the block REALLY come loose.

Pedersoli swears they did not purchase the H&R machinery, but, if they didn't, they surely copied it since early Pedersoli TDs had the exact same problem - which, to their credit (unlike H&R) they did something about.

My OM just sits in the rack, waiting - I am going to do "Fix #2", when I get the time. Gun is a super shooter, numerous one ragged hole groups off 50yd. bench, but recoil is pretty stout, due to light weight, stock shape and greatly undersized buttplate.

[butlersrangers]

Thank you Gentlemen for these replies. This sure tempers my appetite to obtain an H&R 'Officer Rifle'. They are a neat looking replica, but, not something I'll rush into!

[13Echo]

I think they are fine little rifles and great shooters. The thumb latch problem is fixable. It is a good way to own a shootable Trapdoor carbine without huge cost or risking a valuable antique. They are not pleasant off the bench with the full power rifle load of 70grs BP and the 500 or even the 405gr bullet. The carbine load of 55grs BP and the 405gr bullet is a lot more tolerable. The rifle will still never be much fun off the bench but is a hoot to shoot standing up.

Jerry Liles