1873 Carbine

[keith smart]

I'm trying to collect information on what appears (based on Al Frasca's book) an original 1873. It also seems that it is either very late 1875 or could it be the 1876? I will need sunlight to submit decent photos and will do so when and if the sun returns. In narrative:
ESA cartouche
long wrist,short comb.
Small VP eagle on barrel.
Dated stacking swivel
First type thumb piece
Carbine (unmarked) rear sight, headless screws

The serial number is above 63000

I had hoped to show it to Al in Louisville next week but he won't be attending.

Again, any comments would be welcomed
Keith

[raymeketa]

I, for one, am looking forward to seeing some photos. No "trapdoor" is more interesting to me than an original 1873 Carbine.

To me, the holy grail of carbines is what I call the Model 1875. A '73 with the field replaced stock with short wrist and no trap (or holes) in the butt. I owned but one during my many years of collecting carbines.

Ray

[Dick Hosmer]

Officially, all TD carbines were called Model 1873s, until production started on the short wrist stock in 1877. There was no "1875" or "1876" model. Incidentally, only the carbine was referred to thereafter as the Model 1877" - rifles and cadets continued as 1873s. I have never owned the variation Ray mentioned, but have seen an example - which was not for sale at the time. They are rare!

I would hope your carbine is WELL above 63000, as that is a rifle number range. It did not come from Trapdoors Galore, did it?

[keith smart]

Edited following Mr. Hosmers comment. PM sent to Mr. Hosmer

[raymeketa]

Dick

I referred to that rare carbine of mine as the Model 1875, knowing there was no such thing, only because I could never think of a short way to describe it to other collectors. The same goes for some of the related tools with no official designation such as the carbine wooden cleaning rod, thong, and brush, and the 4-band headless shell extractor.

I too hope that Al is up and running soon.

Ray

[StockDoc]

what is the price range of these, junk to collector? And is this the type that was at Little Big Horn with Custer?

Thanks

[Dick Hosmer]

Early 1873 Carbines (real ones) go for $1,000 - $275,000 and up. And, one man's "junk" is another man's treasure. This is a model where, IMHO, authenticity trumps condition, BIG time.

Custer? No, not this one - s/n is too high. ALL 20,000 "long-wrist" carbines were made well before LBH, but only certain number ranges are good candidates. Those which have been forensically ID'ed bring the huge money.

But also, they have been widely faked, and one needs to know not only what parts and markings should be present (or NOT present as the case may be) but also to be able to tell "real old" from "fake old", and from "new", AND what SA would, and would not, have done as part of the assembly process.

[StockDoc]

Thanks Dick

[raymeketa]

Pay special attention to what Dick said about fakes. Back in the 60s and 70s, Dixie Gun Works sold a lot of stripped receivers having low serial numbers. Some of them were bought by guys who made their own Indian Wars Cavalry carbines. Some of them were very good looking and it took a trained eye (and a screwdriver) to weed out the good ones. And, if the job was good enough to fool the experts, they may still be making the gun show circuit.

Ray