The 1911 "fatal flaw" controversy

[bobby L]

Guamsst,
Perhaps you hit on it.
Bobby is a groin shooter.
Jim C

you got it Jimmy.... Hit'em where it really hurts!

[VetPsychWars]

Wow, what a weird thread.

The 1917 manual for the Model of 1911 pistol specifically says to pull the trigger with your index finger. Middle finger? I'll show you middle finger!

I am left-eye shooter and right handed. I shoot rifles left-handed because there's no choice, my right eye is nearly useless. I shoot my 1911s right handed; it's no big deal to move the pistol a couple inches to the left.

Anecdote: during self-defense training, I was the only one who actually transferred my pistol to the left hand when I had to shoot to the left of my defensive position.

How could you not?! But... no other student did.

Tom

[Guamsst]

This thread isn't weird, the fact that it survived to 8 pages is whats weird....LOL

[Johnny P]

Now I am really concerned that my 1911 and 1911A1 pistols may have little value due to the "fatal flaw". Wish someone had told me about that 35 years ago.

[Michael Tompkins]

Hi all,

I was somewhat surprised to read about the controversy caused by using the the second finger to pull the trigger while using the index to quickly line up the muzzle of the pistol to the target. I was a 2nd lt. in the army and never was taught that method of firing the 45. At least I can't recall it and I know I never read the manual, warning of it's use.

As an MP during the time when the 1911A1 was still in service, it was our primary side-arm. I don't recall that method being taught during Basic/AIT, qualification or re-familiarization. I loved our 1911A1. Still remember my serial no. It was a Colt, serial number 1626057. Wonder where it is today?

[Dave Waits]

I really tried to ignore this after my initial post but, it won't go away. So, here's a true left-handers take. Aside from the guy being a small-minded Mall ninja nobody in their right mind would shoot a 1911 as he describes. Oh, as an aside, my wife stated that that was probably the only thing he could find to use that middle finger on but, I digress. I use a high-grip, thumbs forward grip and yes, I did indeed, pop the slide-stop once with my right thumb. That was two years ago and I found the cure rather quickly. Haven't had that problem since. Yes, I shortened the pin and countersunk as you can see in the pic. I have no trouble disassembling the gun and the pin is out of the way when I grip the gun.

[Ken Hill]

What a thread! To add some more things to consider was Browning's, (being the genius of his day) possible deliberate attempt to place a pin that in some cases can partially block the beam of a Crimson Trace type laser grip that was surely to be invented within the life cycle of his design.

Other than that life is good and my 1911's shoot just fine ... flawed or not!

[bobby L]

I agree Ken what a thread! I didn't realize how strong a response it would elicit. I'm glad however I posted it because it gave others a chance to talk about the slide pin moving out on them like it did on me. As I mentioned not knowing if was me or the gun, I fixed my problem by very slightly dimpling the slide pin surface where it contacts the spring tentioned plunger and I've never had the problem with it since. But then again, i've never used that method of shooting since either. One thing's for sure anyway, the 1911 is still the best pistol that was ever made in my and most of the gun world's opinion. I've owned John Browning's "refinement" 'Hi-Power' and found it to be a very good pistol, but I still like his 1911 better.

As to whether the index finger pointing method of point shooting is of any value, I guess it depends on the individual. I know I would never use it on my 1911 because my hands are not large enough for me to feel comfortable with the recoil. I will try using it with my CZ82 or some other pistols I have. My thought is that just because a method is new, it doesn't mean it's automatically good....or bad...just because it wasn't thought of a hundred years before.

[joem]

If it's one of the heavy magnums (.460 or .480), you woun't have to worry about the tip of your finger cause it'll be gone.

[bobby L]

nah, Joem it would only be with one of my small frame automatics, which would be the likely carry gun anyway.

[Guamsst]

ROFLMAO.......Congratulations Dave Waits you save me some typing time.

I was playing with a compact 1911 tonight and cupped it right handed and my finger was barely resting on the pin. I then realised a lefty using a similar but opposite grip could do exactly what you described. Ofcourse, it also was uncomfortable and I would have changed my grip anyways, but the fact is, this is the only reasonable grip I can see that may cause the problem.