Odd-Looking US&S?

[Johnny P]

If the buyer knows who he bought it from, he should seek redress on a pistol that is illegal to possess, much less sell. While the serial number is a US&S number, it is not original to that receiver.

The really troubling part of the pistol is that the markings were applied with a roll die rather than the engraved or pantographed markings were are use to seeing. While not illegal, it certainly isn't ethical to apply manufacturers markings to a pistol that never had them, but the serial number is another matter. The set up to do roll markings isn't something you find in every gun shop, as this is a rather sophisticated operation to apply them. While the circle/RCD and the serial number were laughable in their crudeness, the roll markings are certainly much better than anything I have seen to date.

[JBinIll]

[stan4]

Sorry Guys but no one is getting screwed except for the consignor. A member emailed me a link to this thread and I pulled the plug on the auction. When I read Scott Gahimer's post I knew I was dealing with Junk his reputation precedes him. I've read the story of "First Day of Production Colt #33" I believe I have the serial number correct.

A friend of mine purchased this Firearm at the Louisville KY gun show earlier this month from some fellas from Tennessee. He has had buyers remorse from the beginning and he asked me to move it on down the line. ($5500 to answer the question running through most of your minds) Neither of us were qualified (not even remotely) to determine weather or not this piece was real. I know double action Colts, think I'll leave the 1911s to the experts.

Thanks to a member (Pistol1954) for keeping me from running this one completely off into the ditch.

Best Regards,

Marc
Keystone Arms

Marc,

It could be that anyone interested in vintage pistols may be screwed.

It would be very nice to determine the source of this pistol. Whoever made this, will probably make more. I would like to see them in jail. (Why does it seem that this might have come from that large foreign country that keeps re-popping collectibles?) Just imagine an environment flooded with fakes!---And, parts from those fakes! (Check-out the patina on the front strap again.)

Your friend has serious redress with the person that sold this to him. Hopefully he has good contact information on that person and they cooperate. I would like to see the authorities involved.

Please keep the forum informed on what happens in this case!

Regards,

P.S. Show us the barrel details---it does not look right either.

[Marc@Keystone]

Yes I have the Contact Info. My friend actually wrote a personal check to the seller of the firearm and the seller FedExd the gun to me. I have a copy of the sellers drivers license I used to enter it into my bound books.

We will reach out to the seller and see what his stance is. I'll keep the Forum posted as we progress.

I will field strip the gun and post pictures of whats inside. The barrel is stamped HS but it's perfectly clear there is a bigger story for this firearm to tell than what meets the eye.

Marc

[Johnny P]

I am more inclined to believe the pistol is home grown. It is a far step ahead of some of the crude fakes we have seen, but still has too many details that are not correct. As we can see it fooled at least one buyer, but an experienced collector would have picked up on the problems immediately.

[Scott Gahimer]

The receiver is an Argentine that was imported, provided it is forged and not cast. In many cases, one who fakes such pistols does not remove the interior serial number on the back of the receiver, under the MSH. Perhaps they think leaving one serial number clears them of breaking the law, but it doesn't.

The dimensions of the recoil spring housing (dust cover), visible receiver around the stocks and squared off profiles are the dead give-away to the Argentinean pistols. They're dirt cheap, easy to acquire and end up being used to fake all kinds of more expensive pistols...including Singers. Every visible marking I was wasn't right, nor was remotely convincing...but too many people just read the markings and miss the characteristics that truly identify manufacture.

I'm glad you pulled the auction. I tried to contact you by phone and via PM at the Colt forum.

[Marc@Keystone]

Hey Scott,

Sorry I missed you, you could've steered me in the right direction earlier.

Would you mind trying me again? I would like to discuss the situation a little more in detail.

Thank you,

Marc
Keystone Arms
724-651-4133

[stan4]

Yes I have the Contact Info. My friend actually wrote a personal check to the seller of the firearm and the seller FedExd the gun to me. I have a copy of the sellers drivers license I used to enter it into my bound books.

We will reach out to the seller and see what his stance is. I'll keep the Forum posted as we progress.

I will field strip the gun and post pictures of whats inside. The barrel is stamped HS but it's perfectly clear there is a bigger story for this firearm to tell than what meets the eye.

Marc

Marc,

Any news on this pistol? Have you and Mr. Gahimer come up with anything?

If it is not to much trouble, when you are shooting pictures of the barrel and insides for us, please remove the left grip and show a picture of the area around the top grip bushing and please remove the main spring housing and show us a picture of the receiver flat under it.

Regards,

[stan4]

The receiver is an Argentine that was imported, provided it is forged and not cast. In many cases, one who fakes such pistols does not remove the interior serial number on the back of the receiver, under the MSH. Perhaps they think leaving one serial number clears them of breaking the law, but it doesn't.

The dimensions of the recoil spring housing (dust cover), visible receiver around the stocks and squared off profiles are the dead give-away to the Argentinean pistols. They're dirt cheap, easy to acquire and end up being used to fake all kinds of more expensive pistols...including Singers. Every visible marking I was wasn't right, nor was remotely convincing...but too many people just read the markings and miss the characteristics that truly identify manufacture.

I'm glad you pulled the auction. I tried to contact you by phone and via PM at the Colt forum.

Mr. Gahimer,

In your discussions with Marc at Keystone Arms, did you confirm that the receiver is an Argentine?

I initially though it was most likely Argentine. But, the finger cutouts and the mag well thwarted that conclusion.

Best Regards,

[Marc@Keystone]

Mr. Gahimer has called me and left a message. I was out trick or treating with my 2 year old so I missed him, there has been no communication as of yet.

I have the gun on the bench today, let me know if there are certain areas you guys would like to see. I tried to upload into this message but this site looks as if you can only use a URL. We will upload them to photo bucket and attach the link soon.

[Tommy2guns]

Finally, an honest dealer! Spread that disease Marc....

[1563621]

Well Done Marc!