The Silence on this forum is Deafening RE: Ken Burns' VIETNAM

[Griff Murphey]

My junior year in high school '65-'66 the army took away our Army JROTC M-1 Carbines and as far as I know sent them to Vietnam.

[Vern Humphrey]

The first three episodes have been mostly factual. The military has been portrayed as foolish boobs, forgetting, (or avoiding) the fact that we were under orders. The murder of Col. Dewey in 1945 was attributed to the Viet Minh, when it has been established that the Brits killed him on purpose. The idea that the war was unwinnable is reinforced every few minutes. The fact that Johnson fractured our effort and piece-mealed our forces, preventing the defeat of the North Vietnamese is politely skirted. I expect the whole series to turn out as cover for the perfidy and treason of the dems in power at the time, and Teddy. Regards, Clark

You nailed it.

[Former Cav]

Well, the dems and you might include Nixon LOST that "skirmish" in Vietnam. Remember : there was WORLD WAR II, the Korean "conflict" and the Vietnam "experience". <-- SAID with great sarcasm!

W BUSH did not impress me with his LOSING either. LETS face it, NONE of these politicians have been fighting to WIN!! Hopefully Mr. Trump will change that!

I don't care if you are playing football, checkers, chess or a WAR, if you are playing DEFENSE....the best you can hope for is a DRAW!
What ever happened to WINNING!!

I'd love to see some of these politicians KIDS on the FRONT LINE in a COMBAT UNIT! See if there is a change in attitudes !!

[leftyo]

finally seen an episode last night. while there is some good stuff, there is definately a one sided lean to it.

[Vern Humphrey]

Which was why it was replaced. But speaking of heavy and clumsy, there's at least one early photo of an ARVN soldier, weighing not much over 100lbs it appeared, shouldering a M1 rifle; an M1 or M2 carbine would seem a better choice for jungle fighting before M16s became available. Another photo shows what I think was supposed to be a VC aiming an '03 Springfield, and I don't mean 03A3! One problem with most historical documentaries is that they mix up photos taken in different decades because the photo editors are too ignorant to know better; what they could at least do is insert an approximate date into the corner of every photo or film clip.

My first tour as an Adviser, the ARVN used the M1 rifle. We Advisers were issued the M2 carbine -- what a miserable piece of @@#&%! Mime got wrapped around a tree, and I "borrowed" am M1 from the ARVN and carried that the rest of my tour.

The M1 was heavy, it's true. But my belief is that an M1 and enough ammunition to accomplish a mission weighs less than an M16 and enough ammo to accomplish the same mission. For one thing, in combat, people tend to hide behind things. The M1 will shoot THROUGH stuff -- logs, dirt berms and so on.

[PWC]

First off, let me say I never got to serve in Viet Nam. That being said, I have a 21 year career, 12 of which were in Special Ops before there was a recognized title of Special Ops. The best history of Viet Nam I have ever found was written by Stanley Karnow in 1983. Six hundred and seventy pages of insight into Viet Nam. Rise of Ho Chi Minh and Giap, thru the ins and outs of the French and American political struggles and the real day to day struggles of the soldiers on both sides. All this without being filtered thru the eye of Hollywood.

Discussion with my friends that did serve tends to validate this story. Not as intense as "We Were Soldiers Once...And Young", but if you like military history, it's a good read.

[Vern Humphrey]

You want to know what Viet Nam was like?

It's like seeing your bones sticking through your skin. It's like tasting and smelling your own blood. It's like looking into the faces of your dead, so you can check the block that says "Positive Identification," and knowing you could have done better and they'd still be alive. It's like learning about some nasty little xxxxs who thought it was funny to tell your pregnant wife they hoped you'd be killed.

[Former Cav]

It's like learning about some nasty little xxxxs who thought it was funny to tell your pregnant wife they hoped you'd be killed.

I had a high school buddy tell me to my face at a new years eve party in 1970 that it was too bad I didn't get killed.
I was in the state of shock when he said that to me. I didn't respond to him saying that at all as I was in so much disbelief that I even heard that.

[S.A. Boggs]

I had a high school buddy tell me to my face at a new years eve party in 1970 that it was too bad I didn't get killed.
I was in the state of shock when he said that to me. I didn't respond to him saying that at all as I was in so much disbelief that I even heard that.

I commend you on your restraint, I would have had none. I would have spit in his eye and invited him outside.
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

I had a high school buddy tell me to my face at a new years eve party in 1970 that it was too bad I didn't get killed.
I was in the state of shock when he said that to me. I didn't respond to him saying that at all as I was in so much disbelief that I even heard that.

In ancient times, there was a monument at Thermopylae, where the 300 Spartans died. The inscription read, "Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their law."

Let that be our motto, "Go tell the Spartans."

[clintonhater]

In ancient times, there was a monument at Thermopylae, where the 300 Spartans died. The inscription read, "Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their law."

Let that be our motto, "Go tell the Spartans."

When that monument was erected, the natural presumption was that the Spartans, every single one, CARED about their sacrifice. Here & now, many still do, but the feeling is far from universal; ask the nearest Love Trumps Hate protestor.

(By the way, who told the Plateans? A thousand from the small city of Platea refused to retreat with the other Greeks, and died side by side with the Spartans.)

[PWC]

No, Vern, I didn,t say i wanted to know what it wa like in VN. I meant to reply to the comments about the Burns series on PBS about VN and the Hollywood "version" version of the war.

I had been reading the first hand accounts of my Combat Controllers at Kham Duc, Katum, and Khe Sanh. They were unfiltered, and not cleaned up. While I may not have had the combat veteran experience I knew and lived with those that did. Today, if asked when they were in VN, many would say "last night".

[Vern Humphrey]

When that monument was erected, the natural presumption was that the Spartans, every single one, CARED about their sacrifice. Here & now, many still do, but the feeling is far from universal; ask the nearest Love Trumps Hate protestor.

(By the way, who told the Plateans? A thousand from the small city of Platea refused to retreat with the other Greeks, and died side by side with the Spartans.)

I believe the Plateans died at the Battle of Platea the next year.

[clintonhater]

I believe the Plateans died at the Battle of Platea the next year.

You're right--it was contingents from the cities of Thesbia & Thebes who stayed with the Spartans. Nevertheless, the smaller number of Spartans got all the glory; pretty much the way the world usually operates.

Wiki: "Many of the Greek contingents then either chose to withdraw (without orders) or were ordered to leave by Leonidas (Herodotus admits that there is some doubt about which actually happened).[95][97] The contingent of 700 Thespians, led by their general Demophilus, refused to leave and committed themselves to the fight.[98] Also present were the 400 Thebans and probably the helots who had accompanied the Spartans.[94]

[Vern Humphrey]

You're right--it was contingents from the cities of Thesbia & Thebes who stayed with the Spartans. Nevertheless, the smaller number of Spartans got all the glory; pretty much the way the world usually operates.

Wiki: "Many of the Greek contingents then either chose to withdraw (without orders) or were ordered to leave by Leonidas (Herodotus admits that there is some doubt about which actually happened).[95][97] The contingent of 700 Thespians, led by their general Demophilus, refused to leave and committed themselves to the fight.[98] Also present were the 400 Thebans and probably the helots who had accompanied the Spartans.[94]

And as a wise man once said, "What is important about the Alamo, Massada and Thermopylae is the story, not the reality."