The Silence on this forum is Deafening RE: Ken Burns' VIETNAM

[S.A. Boggs]

One thing I have never understood is guy's who won't stand when it is right, not politically correct. I am not a brave guy but I won't back down when I have needed to. Many times when working with some of my clients I often wondered what they would do. One was ticked off in general with a large butcher knife in reach it wasn't in reach very long I tell you. My hat is off to you guys who have seen the elephant, I was scared being in the regional jail.
Sam

[Griff Murphey]

I have not watched all of every episode but I will say it's interesting. I think to some extent they hand picked the Veterans they interviewed looking for guys who got active in the anti war movement later. They have had one guy who ran off to Canada and described it as the "bravest thing I ever did." Hmm.

Interesting new to me footage on Kent State. The Nat. Guard was sure passing out armloads of pump shotguns and digging shells out of red and green Remington Express commercial ammo. I learned that one of the four kids killed was an ROTC scholarship student who was just an onlooker.

You can sure see the deterioration of the Army in appearance of personnel and installations by the 1970 time frame. Quite a difference from the very STRAC troops who first arrived. The Marines were affected too but not as badly.

Definitely left leaning but worth looking at, IMO.

[clintonhater]

I have not watched all of every episode but I will say it's interesting...

And this was YOUR topic? Only during the last two episodes have I found it necessary to get up and do something else while scenes of anti-war scumbags are being shown, or the uproar at the Demo convention in Chicago (all of which I watched on TV while it was happening, loving every min because it was hurting their candidate). Don't know how much more I can stand, however, as the hopelessness of the situation beginning with Nixon's pullout is just too depressing to watch.

[Griff Murphey]

And this was YOUR topic? Only during the last two episodes have I found it necessary to get up and do something else while scenes of anti-war scumbags are being shown, or the uproar at the Demo convention in Chicago (all of which I watched on TV while it was happening, loving every min because it was hurting their candidate). Don't know how much more I can stand, however, as the hopelessness of the situation beginning with Nixon's pullout is just too depressing to watch.

I have thought a bit about your response and how to respond or even if I should respond. Started to say I didn't produce it, I just reported my thoughts on it. Whether we who lived through it like it or not, this series will probably stand as the only comprehensive video version of the entire war to be available and will certainly define the thoughts our grandchildren will have about Vietnam. Much in the same way VICTORY AT SEA sort of defined WW-2 (at least the Navy part of it). I agree it's a lot to take in at once and at times gets overwhelming.

[togor]

The thing that jumps out at me from the series is that the guys in charge even early on knew this was going to be trouble but for one reason or another couldn't come to a decisive moment. All this well before the public view of the war changed.

[dryheat]

I remember someone who was present talking later about the Bay of Pigs decision . He said, if one person had stood up and said No, this is a bad idea, it might have changed the outcome.

[oscars]

Togor:
Read "Dereliction of Duty" by H.R. McMaster to see the description of leadership failures.

[clintonhater]

Togor:
Read "Dereliction of Duty" by H.R. McMaster to see the description of leadership failures.

Pointed out more than once was that it's usually the tendency of military leaders to "fight the last war." But our leaders hadn't even learned the lessons of WWII, when Germany & Japan were pounded into rubble without "breaking their will to resist," as Johnson kept talking about doing in the North. It took TWO A-bombs to finally break Japan's will to resist! So how could it ever have been conceived that bombing the North, ruled by do-or-die fanatics even more indifferent to civilian deaths than the leaders of Germany & Japan, was ever going to work, short of using nukes?

[Vern Humphrey]

Pointed out more than once was that it's usually the tendency of military leaders to "fight the last war." But our leaders hadn't even learned the lessons of WWII, when Germany & Japan were pounded into rubble without "breaking their will to resist," as Johnson kept talking about doing in the North. It took TWO A-bombs to finally break Japan's will to resist! So how could it ever have been conceived that bombing the North, ruled by do-or-die fanatics even more indifferent to civilian deaths than the leaders of Germany & Japan, was ever going to work, short of using nukes?

But a good part of the problem wasn't the military leaders -- it was Johnson and MacNamara. The military leaders were at fault in not standing up and saying, "This isn't going to work."

[2flasargent]

My experiences have been different. I grew up in a small Pa. town. Most older men were WW2 vets and it was assumed that if you were my age and weren't going to College you went in the military. Viet Nam for me was enlisting in the Navy in '67 and one tour on the gun line on a DD. Lots of lost sleep, 7 month cruise, and a few days coming and going in Olongopo. when I went home on leave I wore my uniform to Church and actually on a date or two, no problems and positive interest expressed. So the entire country wasn't negative. I stayed in until 1990, and we lived in predominantly military towns. I never had a real problem with harassment. A few name calling incidents I blew off. In one airport restroom a long haired punk was being an idiot when a couple young marines upended him in a toilet for a swirley. Cop walked in and walked right back out. I heard many incidents from friends in other parts of the country enough to realize I was the exception. I've avoided the series, thinking it was left wing garbage. Truly unfortunate that as someone said this will be the 'definitive' story of Viet Nam.

[ikesdad]

I remember Vietnam. I don't need to watch the same old leftist BS on TV.

[fjruple]

The ground forces in all four corps captured many, many, USGI weapons all through the war. The communist nations recycled every small arm they recovered, no matter its source. It seems that the VC and the NVA were amply supplied by the South Vietnam government and the ARVN. Our government has a history of arming countries that later prove to be our enemies. I once reported orange 50 cal tracers chasing my aircraft instead of commie green. The intel officer said the enemy had access to our weapons and ammo. Regards, Clark

Clark--

a lot of the US made arms that were used against us initially came from Lend Lease Arms provided to the Nationalist Chinese, French and other countries in WWII. The VC like the Chinese and Russian never throw arms away. They used a lot of German arms captured by the Soviet and eastern block countries as well. We also initially provided arms to the Viet Minh in WWII through the OSS. I can only imagine how much stuff we left in Vietnam after our involvement there.

--fjruple

[Clark Howard]

The countries of Indochina, Vietnam included, have been the object of greed and envy for centuries. This was caused by the very productive agricultural output of an agrarian population and a weak government. China, Japan, France, Britain, and others have imposed their wills on the Vietnamese because they wanted the food produced there. The population was only capable of weak resistance for most of that time. The United States made a grave error when it decided to allow the French colonials to re-establish their iron control of Vietnam in 1945, after the country was re-taken from the Japanese. Had we assisted Ho Chi Minh in establishing a government, we could have removed Vietnam from the communist sphere of influence, and avoided a costly war. With our help, Vietnam could have moved into the 20th century as a friend of the United States. Despite all of this, the largest employers in Vietnam are U.S. firms. One bad decision in 1945 delayed the inevitable result for over 60 years. On the other hand, we established many thousands of fish ponds there for use by the Vietnamese. Regards, Clark

[Vern Humphrey]

I remember Vietnam. I don't need to watch the same old leftist BS on TV.

Same here. I know the sound, smell and pain. I know what it's like to see your bones poking through your skin. I don't need some Jane Fonda type to tell me what it was like.

[Vern Humphrey]

Clark--

a lot of the US made arms that were used against us initially came from Lend Lease Arms provided to the Nationalist Chinese, French and other countries in WWII. The VC like the Chinese and Russian never throw arms away. They used a lot of German arms captured by the Soviet and eastern block countries as well. We also initially provided arms to the Viet Minh in WWII through the OSS. I can only imagine how much stuff we left in Vietnam after our involvement there.

--fjruple

In '67 I took a Browning Hi-Power out of the hand of a dead NVA lieutenant. It still had the Canadian decal on it -- made by Inglis and shipped to the Nationalist Chinese.