Vegas

[JimF]

. . . . . .

However, why do we not - proactively for a change - make some moves?

(1) How about the NRA proposes a national law banning "bump-stocks". They were created for ONE purpose only - to "legally" skirt the full-auto issue. There is absolutely no justification - in my opinion - for their existence. Yes, they are "fun", but I think we are going to have to consider that losing a bit of "fun" is better than losing everything, ala Australia, etc.

(2) Magazine size - let's get reasonable (yes, I know, bad word) and cap it at 20 rounds, period, nation-wide. Basically for the same reason as above. Any new mag law should specifically exempt all .22RF arms. "Magazine dump" may be a colorful statement, but it really has no place in civilian firearms usage.

(3) Let's clean up the language about "sawed-off shotguns" - and address the end result. If it is illegal for Billy Bob to whack one in his garage, then it should be illegal for an arms manufacturer to produce and sell basically the same thing. I would think that the end objective would be to keep such very short arms off the street, no matter who makes them.

I could go on an on, but the above will produce enough flaming for awhile.




*those alone will, sadly, alienate many here.

I have to agree with you, Richard . . . .

I just handled the new Remington offering of their "sawed-off" 870 "other weapon" (They don't call it a shotgun) at my local gun shop.

After I handled it, I asked the clerk "What does one do with it?"

To me, it is a useless weapon . . . .

To serve the same purpose, a conventional stocked, short-barelled 870, offers much better control when the stock is UNDER the arm, held against the side of my body.

I predict this weapon will die a quick death! I bet Remington pulls it after lousy sales (Much like their old "electronic ignition" M700 rifle)

I swear, Richard, a lot of the time lately, I believe we are our own worst enemy!! --Jim

[S.A. Boggs]

If we look around in our daily lives I often wonder why is that? Does society really need vehicles that go faster then 70? Do we really need to produce all those cell phones that do more then just call? Do we really need...get the picture I am trying to paint. Ban "high capacity" magazines, semi-auto firearms, "sniper" scopes that go on rifles. "If Daniel Boone could use a muzzle loader that is good enough for today's hunter's!" "I use a double barrel who needs more shots then that?" "Only police and the Army need handguns!" Take your pick, yea someone on "our" side will say one of the above. How about we give Progressives what they really want and that is "people" control.
Sam

[togor]

You ban parts people crack me up

If you will commit the Ultimate crime (murder) - do you think a misdemeanor (or felony) charge of "scary part" is going to stop someone from killing?

You are way out of reality.....

There is NO LAW which will stop a nut.

So let's punish 350 million people that didn't go berserk because of 1 that did.

Why is it when a terrorist kills with a car or knife, no one wants to ban them. Why are we told not to blame the religion - blame the person, yet the first thing we do with a shooting is blame the tool.

I know..... let's ban murder..... there, problem solved.

Steve

In the real world we make tradeoffs. Banning pistols and knives and other on airliners does reduce the chances that they get illegally repurposed. If the guy in Vegas has no bump fire, maybe he puts 1/3 the number of rounds downrange. Those are human lives, people whose right to life and liberty has been severely attacked. How many lives are worth the tradeoff for others to conveniently blow ammo through "make believe" MGs? That's a tough question. For me I am uncomfortable with the idea that every new widget that someone thinks up I am automatically supposed to defend as life-or-death of 2A. I didn't ask for bump fire, or for whatever uber-engineered mount is sure to follow. Controllability problems with your assist device? Have we got a product for you....

[leftyo]

In the real world we make tradeoffs. Banning pistols and knives and other on airliners does reduce the chances that they get illegally repurposed. If the guy in Vegas has no bump fire, maybe he puts 1/3 the number of rounds downrange. Those are human lives, people whose right to life and liberty has been severely attacked. How many lives are worth the tradeoff for others to conveniently blow ammo through "make believe" MGs? That's a tough question. For me I am uncomfortable with the idea that every new widget that someone thinks up I am automatically supposed to defend as life-or-death of 2A. I didn't ask for bump fire, or for whatever uber-engineered mount is sure to follow. Controllability problems with your assist device? Have we got a product for you....

as we are told, he was working on a backup plan. if he didnt have the guns, it looks like he was fully prepared to pull a timothy mcveigh, which in my opinion would have resulted in a bunch more casualties. you have the boston marathon aholes, they didnt use a gun either, but never heard one of you guys calling for the banning of pressure cookers, and the list goes on and on. do you really believe banning anything will prevent these nutcases form killing? i dont! i think quite a few of you guys are really liberals, you just havent realized it yet!

[m1ashooter]

Lets let all the facts come out if we will ever get all the facts. I just saw some video of what looks like gun fire coming from the 12th floor.

[JB White]

Bump fire. I could never see the purpose behind them aside from spraying ammo and overheating/ruining a good barrel while running the risk of a cook-off. Seriously now....how many here own a bump fire device, or a trigger crank, just because they like the idea of owning one? Why? It's not a full auto. It can't lay down a beaten zone for suppression. It's wild (and fun for a minute or two..ok) and it's no way as accurate as a select fire shoulder mounted weapon. It's like putting NoS on the family car. Goes fast until the engine takes a dump.

Bump fire devices ARE NOT FIREARMS! This isn't a 2A debate at all. It's just a friggin' TOY!

I'm with Dick. The NRA should spearhead the drive to eliminate such things and head off the liberals at the pass. They were fun while they lasted but some a-hole had to ruin it.

[leftyo]

the libs dont just want some of the toys, they want all your guns. so called gun owners calling for a ban of one item or another just further their cause. just remember flash hiders, pistol grips, "hi cap magazines", etc. these are all not needed according to the libs, nor is semi auto, etc. as for friggen toys, i think the whole world saw that its not just a toy. i dont own one, but not willing to sell out!

[Griff Murphey]

Anybody on this forum... Do you really want to defend bump fire and other accelerators?

Because if you are going to try we are going to lose our military semiautos. There is no way on God's green that you can justify turning loose just anybody with a full auto, admittedly a second rate one but damn sure deadly firing into a crowd.

I'd rather keep my guns. I've never proposed banning any "part" before but I damn sure will now. I think ATF likely approved the things knowing eventually the worst case scenario would happen... And it has.

[leftyo]

the libs arent going to stop with just getting bump fire stocks, crank triggers etc. they want your semi auto rifles, and the magazines that go with them. your seriously dillussional if you think giving up a part or two is going to stop their quest to fully disarm you! we've seen these massacres happen with firearms, driving trucks into crowds. blowing up buildings with a moving van packed with explosives, and even pressure cookers. you've never heard a lib cry to ban vans, or pressure cookers have you?

[blackhawknj]

Matyas Rakosi, who engineered the Communist takeover of Hungary in 1945-46, was noted for his "salami slicing" tactics-just a little bit at time. What I call flank attacks on the RKBA-cf. the attempts to deny recent veterans their 2A Rights on the grounds that they've been so "traumatized"-PTSD, anyone ?-that ...you get the picture.
Supposing they find out this guy was on drugs, either prescription or illegal-what then.
Gun owners are a pretty ingenious and inventive bunch. Be honest-how any of you have bought "those" books and made silencers ? Outlaw bump fire parts. accelerators ? Make your own out of scrap metal, won't hurt so much if you have to ditch them.

[leftyo]

Matyas Rakosi, who engineered the Communist takeover of Hungary in 1945-46, was noted for his "salami slicing" tactics-just a little bit at time. What I call flank attacks on the RKBA-cf. the attempts to deny recent veterans their 2A Rights on the grounds that they've been so "traumatized"-PTSD, anyone ?-that ...you get the picture.
Supposing they find out this guy was on drugs, either prescription or illegal-what then.
Gun owners are a pretty ingenious and inventive bunch. Be honest-how any of you have bought "those" books and made silencers ? Outlaw bump fire parts. accelerators ? Make your own out of scrap metal, won't hurt so much if you have to ditch them.

this is pretty good. we all know that criminals dont abide by the law anyways. anything banned just deprives honest people, it doesnt deprive or slow down criminals in the least!

[dobek]

Anybody on this forum... Do you really want to defend bump fire and other accelerators?

Because if you are going to try we are going to lose our military semiautos. There is no way on God's green that you can justify turning loose just anybody with a full auto, admittedly a second rate one but damn sure deadly firing into a crowd.

I'd rather keep my guns. I've never proposed banning any "part" before but I damn sure will now. I think ATF likely approved the things knowing eventually the worst case scenario would happen... And it has.

I will -

When was the last time a gun grabber compromised? Do you think if we offered to outlaw bump fire if they agree to national reciprocity of CCW they would look across and say - sure - that will work...

IT ISN'T THE FRIGGIN TOOL THAT KILLED ANYONE - IT IS THE PERSON

I live this sh$t every day - I live in California - where we have outlawed scary flash hiders, scary bayonet lugs, scary pistol grip stocks, scary detachable magazines, scary bullet buttons, scary pistols that don't pass a drop test, scary pistols that don't microstamp serial numbers on brass, scary ammunition without a license.... God knows no one needs more than one firearm every 30 days - then wait another 10 days to "cool down"...oh yeah, and those guns of choice for gang bangers - the scary .50 cal which can shoot straight through 10 houses..... and the list goes on.....

You are just fooling yourself and willingly allowing the camel's nose under the tent.... don't believe it? come live in CA

I don't want to add ANOTHER item to the list of stuff I have to beg a bureaucrat to allow me to purchase....

Do I own a bump fire? nope - Did I ever want to own one? nope - but that is my CHOICE not some politicians wet dream.

I can hear it now..... I'd blow your arse away, if only that darn bump fire stock was legal... dang that law.... now I can't live out my warped end of life....

Government is NOT the answer to every situation - NO LAW WILL STOP A NUT

Steve

[S.A. Boggs]

I will -

When was the last time a gun grabber compromised? Do you think if we offered to outlaw bump fire if they agree to national reciprocity of CCW they would look across and say - sure - that will work...

IT ISN'T THE FRIGGIN TOOL THAT KILLED ANYONE - IT IS THE PERSON

I live this sh$t every day - I live in California - where we have outlawed scary flash hiders, scary bayonet lugs, scary pistol grip stocks, scary detachable magazines, scary bullet buttons, scary pistols that don't pass a drop test, scary pistols that don't microstamp serial numbers on brass, scary ammunition without a license.... God knows no one needs more than one firearm every 30 days - then wait another 10 days to "cool down"...oh yeah, and those guns of choice for gang bangers - the scary .50 cal which can shoot straight through 10 houses..... and the list goes on.....

You are just fooling yourself and willingly allowing the camel's nose under the tent.... don't believe it? come live in CA

I don't want to add ANOTHER item to the list of stuff I have to beg a bureaucrat to allow me to purchase....

Do I own a bump fire? nope - Did I ever want to own one? nope - but that is my CHOICE not some politicians wet dream.

I can hear it now..... I'd blow your arse away, if only that darn bump fire stock was legal... dang that law.... now I can't live out my warped end of life....

Government is NOT the answer to every situation - NO LAW WILL STOP A NUT

Steve

Gentlemen now you have heard it from someone who is in the trenches living and fighting, while the vast majority of us still wait in the trucks to deploy. "I don't agree with what you said, but I will fight to the death for you to say it!" sound familiar. To give a shark a hunk of meat will only make them more desirous of where the meat is coming from. Who here is willing to be the first chunk...not I.
Sam

[togor]

No one has any illusions about what the anti gunners want. That's not even a question. What is a question is if an assist device needs to be defended the same as a firearm. And if so, why.

[S.A. Boggs]

No one has any illusions about what the anti gunners want. That's not even a question. What is a question is if an assist device needs to be defended the same as a firearm. And if so, why.

Why not? Do you "need" those deadly high capacity feeding devices? Do we "need" a firearms that holds. "More then two bullets" as the news people say. Do you really "need" more then_________fill in the blanks. Who or what are you willing to have define, "Your Need?" Unless we all stay together we have a good chance of hanging individually and mark my word we will HANG. Since the control of full automatic firearms "to get them out of criminal hands" gun owners are going down a slippery path that we grease ourselves. Amongst ourselves this should not be a conversation of what "we" are willing to defend. I don't own one of these devices, yet I reload and make my own bullets. For the sake of society who here is willing to have me give up part of my hobby for the sake of government control of all ammunition? Are "we" that willing to sell each other out? Who here is willing to step up and say, "I will for the sake of a safe society and for the children!" What did that Famous American Hero say..."Give me Liberty or give me Death!"
Sam