Any opinions on the expected antigun tidal wave?

[Griff Murphey]

I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would say that Cruz, the Florida murderer, should have been buying his AR. Do we as a community stand firm that there is nothing more we can do? I realize that even asking this question will anger a lot of guys on the forum.

I personally think this "troubled youth" thing is a societal issue linked to pressure of social media which encourages the "troubled" to issue these manifestos of death, then carry the threats out. Cruz even announced on social media that he was going to do this.

One thing I kind of like that my New Zealand friend who has an AR says is that in NZ they make guys who want to buy these guns be in a club and the club kind of passes on whether they get to be licensed. The doofuses surface. And don't get the nod. They have no gun crime with the legally registered guns but despite that record the anti-gunners are still after them when illegal guns are used by criminals.

The AR-15 has been commercially available since the early 1960's and I cannot remember any violence with them until Columbine sort of kicked off the trend of school schooling (AR-15s were NOT used in that but I believe the event and Michael Moore's movie served to promote this kind of crime). The biggest problem is that we have a COMPLEX societal problem with the younger generation but we the responsible gun owners are getting the blame from the media.

What do we do or say, Fellows? Nothing? Or...??

[Marty T.]

First, get off the kick that the "gun" did anything. I laid my 410 shotgun beside a box of shells and told it that it was free to load itself and go shoot something. Guess what, it laid there for days and never moved. My point being, guns don't do anything without the person using it. Back in our youth, kids were not drugged up and society had rules that were followed and laws that had a punishment. I heard on the news that some executions were not being carried out because the "drugs used could not be obtained from an agreement between the gov. and the people against capital punishment". WHEN did any of these criminals try to make killing their victims painless. Bring back swift and harsh punishment, get kids off the drugs and start using discipline at home, get God back in our lives and teach that life is a gift from God and that we are to try to make each others lives as good as we can. Gun laws don't work, punishment will.

[clintonhater]

CNN has been conducting an anti-gun marathon that begun yesterday; you know they're dead serious about it when they let up even temporarily on Russian hacking.

[leftyo]

the aussies and newzealanders have their problems too, despite having to have licenses and be in clubs to own guns. the fact is the gun or any other tool isnt the problem. the problem is how the society in this country has raised kids for the last 30 or so years. its all engineered so no one gets their feelings hurt, everyone gets to play sports, no one keeps score, and every single last kid gets a trophy just for showing up. this has led to kids not being able to handle life. when life gets tough, they no longer know how to deal with it and snap. heck now days the kids that arent totally screwed up by this liberal BS dont move out of mommy's house until they are well into their 30's. i am so tired of people pointing the blame at anything other than right where it belongs. finally lets just face the facts that laws dont stop criminals. it was already illegal for this guy to go kill 17 people, it was already against the law to use a firearm in the commission of a crime, so why does anyone think more laws and regulations will do anything? there were never school shoootings in the 50's,60's,70's, and 80's, and the whole time we had guns easily available, and we even had schools you could just walk into. what changed? thats right the liberal sissy way kids are raised.

[Griff Murphey]

Yes but the man with the gun did kill 17. If the movies and media weren't there to tell them what a wonderful statement and 15 minutes of fame they were to receive the AR-15 would not be being smeared as it is.

In my generation as late as the early 60's you still got your butt whipped in school if you deserved it. Today there are no consequences - everything and every kind of lifestyle and violent video game is wonderful - forget God and the golden rule. I can remember when receiving your first gun or driving a car were considered important milestones in assuming "adult responsibility" - sadly today this concept seems to be largely lacking.

[Allen]

First, get off the kick that the "gun" did anything. I laid my 410 shotgun beside a box of shells and told it that it was free to load itself and go shoot something.

If there was any such thing as an "assault rifle" that would define one.

[Tuna]

Ah yes the wonderful Media!! If they would stop talking about something like this day in and day out it might just not influence another young not so bright kid from trying to do it better then the last one. The one that was stopped in Washington stated that is what he was doing by studying all of the past shootings so he could do it better. Personally I do think the age of being able to purchase a firearm, any firearm should be a minimum of 21 years of age. You know our forefathers were very smart men when they set the age to drink and vote at 21. But the liberal politicians thought they could get more votes if they changed it to 18. They were not very bright then and now they are even dimmer.

[dave]

To answer Griff's question on 'what we should do'-----join the NRA, never mind the weak winey arguments about getting requests for money, endorsing pro-gun Dem.'s, not liking this or that about NRA. Numbers are our best weapon against more gun laws and politicians look at the numbers of NRA member's and know that is a lot of votes! And if you do not think that makes them cautious, think again! Every thing congress does has to do with reelection, the country be damned!

[Sunray]

"...What do we do or say..." Politicians don't listen to anything firearms owners have to say. Neither do the media hacks.
"...They have no gun crime..." There's no such thing anywhere. Firearms are inanimate objects that cannot commit crimes of any kind.
The Aussies don't count. No civilian ownership of AR'15's there. Restricted to military, police, and professional vertebrate pest controllers.
This one's from New Zealand.

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/police-forget-fifteen-ar15-rifles/

This one is an NZ dealer's site.
"To obtain an AR-15, buyers must have a standard, current firearms licence and an approved police order form.

[Dan Shapiro]

BREAKING: FBI says Jan. 5 tip about the suspected Florida school shooter was received by FBI's Public Access Line but "protocols were not followed" to escalate the tip for further investigation - http://NBCNews.com

This is NOT the same tip re: the YouTube comment that was posted last September.

[barretcreek]

If these defective organisms are allowed to be out in society they will create problems. Period. Violence comes from the mind, not the hands.

Media has created this by giving them their 15 mins. The would be monster in Everett WA put in his diary he wanted the highest body count and to be famous.

[Griff Murphey]

NZ is pretty easy on rifles but they do do split hairs on semiautos. You can license an M-1 as any ordinary sporting rifle if it has the bayonet lug ground off and you agree to use only 5 shot clips in it. The next step up in licensing is an issue M-1 with 8 rd. Clips or such as the AR-15 type rifle with a ten round mag. Bigger mags than that are at the top of their licensing. Live full autos are fairly easy to license but they are not allowed to be fired. Pistols - my kiwi friend shoots borrowed ones in matches occasionally but I don't know exactly how the licensing works for them. As in Australia and England they cannot use a firearm in self defense. In New Zealand they can have an ex military issue Full auto AK or FAL that has been converted to semi only.

And there's no crime committed with legally owned firearms. The small amount of crime committed with guns is invariably committed with illegal ones. Is that better?

Totally agree the age should be raised to 21 to buy any gun.

[jim-d]

[QUOTE=Marty T.;520893]First, get off the kick that the "gun" did anything. I laid my 410 shotgun beside a box of shells and told it that it was free to load itself and go shoot something. Guess what, it laid there for days and never moved. My point being, guns don't do anything without the person using it. Back in our youth, kids were not drugged up and society had rules that were followed and laws that had a punishment. I heard on the news that some executions were not being carried out because the "drugs used could not be obtained from an agreement between the gov. and the people against capital punishment". WHEN did any of these criminals try to make killing their victims painless. Bring back swift and harsh punishment, get kids off the drugs and start using discipline at home, get God back in our lives and teach that life is a gift from God and that we are to try to make each others lives as good as we can. Gun laws don't work, punishment will.[/QU

Comment is on the money

[blackhawknj]

The news "media" (as Fred Allen might say, they're a medium because they do nothing well) have admitted that Cruz bought his gun legally. I note the New York Post has turned coat and urged the legal age for firearms purchases be raised to 21, saying that someone who is only 18 "doesn't have much of a background" ?
Australia ? New Zealand ? I am not enamored of the Commonwealth countries, for us The Constitution is a clearly written document that was explained to and ratified by The People, not some amorphous idea that has "just growed". The Bill of Rights was written in response to specific demands, and foremost in it is the 2A and the "Right of the People...." Having to join a club and allow the members to vote...not much of a right then, is it ? Should someone who wants to drink be required to join a club and have his qualifications debated....
I have read that the Trudeau Government in Canada wants background checks to include "conjugal partners"-tell me that's not going to door to malicious-and false-accusations. As The Wall Street Journal noted in an editorial a few days ago for some a mere allegation is all that is needed. Shades of Stalin's USSR.

[clintonhater]

I note the New York Post has turned coat and urged the legal age for firearms purchases be raised to 21, saying that someone who is only 18 "doesn't have much of a background" ?

There is some logic to that, based on the legal drinking age of 21--which I sure wouldn't want lowered. Not being able to purchase doesn't mean not being able to use--I was given my first at 10, and most states will grant a hunting license at 16 or younger. The 18 yr old who can't find a parent or other adult who trusts him enough to take the responsibility of providing him with a gun, if he wants it, is probably suspect. Yes, it's an imposition on a mature & responsible 18 yr old, but waiting 3 yrs isn't an impossibly heavy cross to bear. Anyway, aren't most mature & responsible 18 yr olds entering college or job training with little money for gun-buying?