Any long range shooters on here

[p246]

Cosine as far as bullets now I have a good load for Hornady ELD M 123 grain and 140 grain for the 260. My 1 in 10 300 shoots the Berger 210 VLD Match very well. It did not like the Hornady ELD Ms so I had to buy the more expensive Berger. The 30 inch barreled 300 winmags that’s getting ready to be built is a 1 in 9 twist and I’m hoping it will shoot the 220 SMK or the 215 Hybrid Berger. As with scopes there are a lot of good bullets these days. Equipment wise we are spoiled these days. However I drool when I hear how cheap powder was back in the day.

[Cosine26]

Hi P246
I am amazed that anyone is shooting at 1900. The Brits used to shoot out to 1200 yards at Bisley.
Paul Wright was experimenting with a 6,5 mm but was very secretive about his equipment. I lost interest when I saw that he always carried a mallet so he could open the bolt. Our long range matches were basically two 20 shot matches at 600 and two more at 1000. Eighty shots a day was pretty tiring even with the 12-14 pound Bull Guns. One with irons and the second "any sight"-usually a scope.. The price of powder and bullets today amazes me. Early on we bought Hodgen 4831 surplus at 100 # for $50.00. I still have an unopened pound of HiVel #2 marked $2.00. one hundred Western Super Match bullets ran ~ $4.00.
Old age, arthritis, and bad vision took me out of the game a while back.
VR
C.O.

[p246]

I use 4831 in my 260. I find it on sale for 149.99 plus tax for 8 lbs but that the best I have found. The guys that get out to 1900for the most part are running CheyTacs and 338 Lapua Mags. The guy that won last year was running a single loader 338 AI Lapua Magnum. I placed 15th and was one of two guns that were still shooting factory tubes. In this contest a hit is a hit, no shooting groups. It has gotten so big they have split it up into 2 groups this year. Also the targets hung 10 feet in the air behind brush. No feedback from splash. One usually does not get trace all day. It tends to come on early but leaves right when you get to the longer ranges and need it.

[jmm03]

Cosine, if would not be considered hijacking the thread, if you have any pictures of your firearms I for one would love to see them... Jim

[p246]

Cosine, if would not be considered hijacking the thread, if you have any pictures of your firearms I for one would love to see them... Jim

I think that would be awesome if you have any.

[Cosine26]

Here is the only picture I have readily available. I still have all except the Rem 30 Bull gun. I traded that for a new Winchester 52D. I shall take some pictures and post later. This is a Match M1 (not NM)built by an armorer for his own personal use. It is built on a Winchester action with all NM parts. Unfortunately he polished the action as he intended to blue the finished rifle but assembled and tested it before bluing. It is more accurate than my NM M1. He received emergency orders to Nam and sold off every thing at give way prices. He offered it to me for what ever had in my pocket-$25. I never took it apart and it shot well at 600 and 1000. And yes I used the web sling.
FWIW

https://imgur.com/a/vx3CcOS

https://imgur.com/iqxJUWL

[p246]

Thanks for the pics Cosine.

[Cosine26]

As you can see, there was not much of a market for M1’s in my area. The civilians preferred their bolt gun and the military teams had converted to the M14 and M118 MATCH ammo at that time with fair success. The civilian community had bought a couple on NM M1’s and passed around after members after they had had “legged out”. By this time these rifles had grown “long of tooth” and the civilian shooters expected to buy NM M14’s. Of course ATF put the end to that thought. The army considered building semi auto only M14’s but decided against that idea. In my High Power community there were no collectors and besides, this rifle was no longer collectible. I did not need the rifle because I owned my own 1962 NM M1. (As I understand, there were only fewer than 300 NM M1’s sold in 1962).
I always used M72 Match in my M1's particularly after the advent of LC 62/63 NM/MATCH ammo came out. In those years the MATCH M72 ammo was great .
When using the standard M1903 (match conditioned) , I used a full load of either IMR 4064 or IMR 4350 behind a 180 gr SMK or 180 gr Western BTM.
I knew that I would never be a National champion, though I won a few matches, I was shooting for fun.
FWIW

[Cosine26]

Winchester Model 70 Bull Gun in 300H&H with 10X Unertl installed. It had a 28" barrel and finished at 7/8 inch at muzzle.

https://imgur.com/q1PKcWF

Another view

https://imgur.com/a/b6f8IV6

Left Side

https://imgur.com/htV2ubX

Sticker on stockshows Sight Settings for 190 gr SMK and 200 gr SMK

I used both the 190 and the 200 gr SMK bullet. I used mostly IMR 4350 or H4831. Norm 205 came out and I had good results with the first # I tried but ran into pressure problems with subsequent cans of powder so I stropped using it. When you are working at around 60K psi you must be cautious. With these loads we used. to get fewer than 100 rounds from a #. The long sloping case of the H&H caused the case length to creep and eventually caused the case to get thin just above the belt. Later long range loads, 30 Norma Magnum or 30-338 had a straighter case and did not cause the problem.
I still have the rifle.

[p246]

As you can see, there was not much of a market for M1’s in my area. The civilians preferred their bolt gun and the military teams had converted to the M14 and M118 MATCH ammo at that time with fair success. The civilian community had bought a couple on NM M1’s and passed around after members after they had had “legged out”. By this time these rifles had grown “long of tooth” and the civilian shooters expected to buy NM M14’s. Of course ATF put the end to that thought. The army considered building semi auto only M14’s but decided against that idea. In my High Power community there were no collectors and besides, this rifle was no longer collectible. I did not need the rifle because I owned my own 1962 NM M1. (As I understand, there were only fewer than 300 NM M1’s sold in 1962).
I always used M72 Match in my M1's particularly after the advent of LC 62/63 NM/MATCH ammo came out. In those years the MATCH M72 ammo was great .
When using the standard M1903 (match conditioned) , I used a full load of either IMR 4064 or IMR 4350 behind a 180 gr SMK or 180 gr Western BTM.
I knew that I would never be a National champion, though I won a few matches, I was shooting for fun.
FWIW

Great stories like you I know I’ll ever be that guy, but I have a lot of fun chasing that guy. I’m a bolt gun guy. It’s just cheaper keeping a bolt gun going. Accurate semi auto loaders are a ball when tuned and running. Just harder and more expensive to keep sub MOA.

- - - Updated - - -

Winchester Model 70 Bull Gun in 300H&H with 10X Unertl installed. It had a 28" barrel and finished at 7/8 inch at muzzle.

https://imgur.com/q1PKcWF

Another view

https://imgur.com/a/b6f8IV6

Left Side

https://imgur.com/htV2ubX

Sticker on stockshows Sight Settings for 190 gr SMK and 200 gr SMK

I used both the 190 and the 200 gr SMK bullet. I used mostly IMR 4350 or H4831. Norm 205 came out and I had good results with the first # I tried but ran into pressure problems with subsequent cans of powder so I stropped using it. When you are working at around 60K psi you must be cautious. With these loads we used. to get fewer than 100 rounds from a #. The long sloping case of the H&H caused the case length to creep and eventually caused the case to get thin just above the belt. Later long range loads, 30 Norma Magnum or 30-338 had a straighter case and did not cause the problem.
I still have the rifle.

Pictures of that bull gun in wood with Unertl had me drooling. Very nice setup from when not many were trying it. Did you chase the lands with a specific jump, or,just build straight ammo and let the jump run with the erosion.

[Cosine26]

Model 70 Winchester target rile.
Here is a picture of my M70 Winchester target rifle, built for the standard NMC and the Long range A &B matches. The LR A&B matches are the same as the standard NMC less 10 shots at 600 and plus either 10 (A) shots or 20 (B) shots at 1000 yards with iron sights. Meets the criteria for NRA Match rifle.
Rifle is built on a pre-WWII M70 Winchester bolt action,. It is equipped with Redfield International rear sight with a Merit adjustable sight aperture, and a Redfield International Globe front sight. Scope blocks have been added to facilitate accuracy testing of rifle and ammo. It is equipped with a select Bliss Titus 28" barrel having a six grooves with 1:10 twist. Barrel was fabricated from a select Titus barrel blank and finishes at 1.3 " at breech and 7/8" at muzzle.(There is a story that goes with that blank if anyone is interested.) It is glass bedded in a pre war Winchester target stock.
With a 10X Unertl installed ,from the bench it will consistently shoot 2" groups with either the 180 SMK or 180 gr Western Super match bullets. With LC 62/63 M72 ammo it will shoot less than 3" groups. I prefer ten shot groups at 300 yards for the big boat tails have had time to settle out on a calm day. This is much better test than a 3 shot group at 100 yards.
In answer to your question, the rifle has negligible throat erosion. There is an indication from army tests that boat tail bullets do not erode barrels as fast as do flat based bullets. Accuracy was shown to improve up to about 3000rounds and then start to fall off beyond ,I believe, 5000 rounds. Even in RF, the IMR powders are not as erosive as the old nitroglycerine based powder such as HiVel#2 (long gone now).

https://imgur.com/kphIzwx

https://imgur.com/J2oPPkP

[Cosine26]

Interesting article on barrel life and bore erosion. P246 thought you may find interesting. There are several other articles available that collaborate this report.

FWIW

https://imgur.com/6TWemaR
https://imgur.com/sIuF2SA

[jmm03]

Thanks for the pic's, the last ones of the model 70 with irons are really sweet... Jim