Antique RR watch

[barretcreek]

This has been a very interesting thread. I have a bunch of old pocket watches and I would like to know some sources to check to find out about them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Jiminvirginia]

Back in the late 1970's I worked for what was left of the Waltham Watch Company. There were a couple of old timers working there that would find parts for the old watches tucked in corners around the building. When they accumulated enough parts they would assemble a working watch and sell it. Regret not getting something. When I was there the company made aircraft clocks for the military. I remember an old gentleman who worked the old Swiss gear cutting machines. He was the last man in the world that could operate those machines. No joke. He was in his mid 80's when I knew him. Tried to retire but the company enticed him back to try and train a replacement. His only break from the business was when he went off to fight in WW 1. I can still picture him stepping off the elevator puffing on his pipe.

[Jiminvirginia]

More to my story. When I worked there the company was Waltham Precision Instruments. The company was in one end of the huge Waltham Watch building. As I said, we made aircraft clocks, the A 13 I remember well. The other was the A 11 I believe. There was also a timer for underwater demolition. We still used the original machinery. Some pushing the 100 year old mark or more. A bank of machines was driven by leather belts by a common motor. Originally this was done by a steam engine.
There was decades worth of gunk on workbenches and machines. Every so often I would dig in that gunk and find old watch parts. I would present my findings to my boss, a lady in her 70's who had worked there all her life. She would take a quick look with her loupe and say "oh thats a minute hand pinion for our 1932 Model xx ladies watch". Amazing. I respected those old watchmakers. They always told me the really good watchmakers were buried up on the hill.

[Merc]

This has been a very interesting thread. I have a bunch of old pocket watches and I would like to know some sources to check to find out about them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Give me some mfr names.

[Merc]

More to my story. When I worked there the company was Waltham Precision Instruments. The company was in one end of the huge Waltham Watch building. As I said, we made aircraft clocks, the A 13 I remember well. The other was the A 11 I believe. There was also a timer for underwater demolition. We still used the original machinery. Some pushing the 100 year old mark or more. A bank of machines was driven by leather belts by a common motor. Originally this was done by a steam engine.
There was decades worth of gunk on workbenches and machines. Every so often I would dig in that gunk and find old watch parts. I would present my findings to my boss, a lady in her 70's who had worked there all her life. She would take a quick look with her loupe and say "oh thats a minute hand pinion for our 1932 Model xx ladies watch". Amazing. I respected those old watchmakers. They always told me the really good watchmakers were buried up on the hill.

That is a fascinating story. Very few people are fortunate enough to even see the inside of some of these historic watch factories before they were demolished. Those factories produced the best watches in the world. It must have been like stepping back in time.

[Johnny P]

Won't be any rubber watches in this.

http://watchtime.me/life-style/vintage/article/1058/top-picks-from-christie-s-dubai-important-watches-auction

[Merc]

Won't be any rubber watches in this.

http://watchtime.me/life-style/vinta...atches-auction

More eye candy. Thanks for sharing.

By the way, the $202 that you paid for your Rolex in 1962 would be worth about $1660 in today’s dollars. Does it still run well?

[Art]

This has been a very interesting thread. I have a bunch of old pocket watches and I would like to know some sources to check to find out about them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

There is a lot online about all of the major companies that made these watches, Elgin, Waltham, Illinois, Hamilton etc. You will be able to find serial number information that will allow you to date your watches. The number you want is on the movement not the case. I had one of the watches that had a picture of one of my cousin's great aunt's picture cleaned up for him- it runs strong now-and checked the date against the Waltham records. It was made between March and August 1890. There are also a lot of watch web site forums like watchuseek. late 19th - mid 20th century technology was often very durable. You may find that some, maybe all of the old watches you have only need a good cleaning and lube job to be put in running condition. Good quality vintage pocket watches, and I mean the fully jeweled 17j and up watches can often be had cleaned, lubed and running strong from dealers from $500.00 - $600.00 dollars, sometimes less, unless the cases are solid gold or silver. Pot luck watches on E-Bay or Amazon for a lot less. I know a fellow whose everyday watch is a fine Hamilton 992 and he isn't the only one. Pocket watches are becoming somewhat fashionable again with fans ranging from the steampunk types to old west enthusiasts, to guys stylin' in the GQ crowd.

One word to the wise. I found out the hard way that with watches, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It's easy to get at the "innards" of most antique pocket watches. Beware of attempting any adjustments yourself, it can be tempting but can end badly....one who knows !!!

Happy hunting.

[Merc]

There is a lot online about all of the major companies that made these watches, Elgin, Waltham, Illinois, Hamilton etc. You will be able to find serial number information that will allow you to date your watches. The number you want is on the movement not the case. I had one of the watches that had a picture of one of my cousin's great aunt's picture cleaned up for him- it runs strong now-and checked the date against the Waltham records. It was made between March and August 1890. There are also a lot of watch web site forums like watchuseek. late 19th - mid 20th century technology was often very durable. You may find that some, maybe all of the old watches you have only need a good cleaning and lube job to be put in running condition. Good quality vintage pocket watches, and I mean the fully jeweled 17j and up watches can often be had cleaned, lubed and running strong from dealers from $500.00 - $600.00 dollars, sometimes less, unless the cases are solid gold or silver. Pot luck watches on E-Bay or Amazon for a lot less. I know a fellow whose everyday watch is a fine Hamilton 992 and he isn't the only one. Pocket watches are becoming somewhat fashionable again with fans ranging from the steampunk types to old west enthusiasts, to guys stylin' in the GQ crowd.

One word to the wise. I found out the hard way that with watches, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It's easy to get at the "innards" of most antique pocket watches. Beware of attempting any adjustments yourself, it can be tempting but can end badly....one who knows !!!

Happy hunting.

All good advice. Here are two sites that can be helpful for research purposes:

www.elginwatches.org.

Elgin was, by far, the largest watch manufacturer. They were in business from the mid 1860s through the mid 1960s and produced one half of all the watches made in the US. They made good watches although you’ll usually pay more for Hamilton, Waltham, Illinois, etc. I’ve not seen that much of a difference in quality or performance to justify higher prices. Maybe it’s just the quantity of watches that Elgin produced that’s driving the price difference. The records for Elgin watches were well preserved, as you’ll see when browsing the site.

Elgin and all others can be found here:

https://www.pocketwatchdatabase.com

Disclaimer - The following are repair organizations that I have found on the internet. I have not used either in the past so I can’t make any recommendations based on past experience. My watchmaker is no longer in business, so I will be using one or both in the future.

This is a repair site in Michigan that quotes their standard cleaning and lube prices for various types of watches in advance on their site. Their prices for servicing running watches are reasonable. They have, or can buy replacement parts for most watches and they also sell railroad grade pocket watches. I find browsing through the “watches for sale” pages entertaining. They sell a lot of RR watches for around $400 to $600, but that includes a detailed disassembly, cleaning and lubrication which itself is a $100 value.

www.northernpartners.com

Here is another repair service.

https://www.pocketwatchrepair.com

Adjusting a slow or fast watch by moving the regulator isn’t really difficult if you take your time and use an eye loup to see what you’re doing. Regulators are there to regulate the speed of the balance wheel by shortening or lengthening the hair spring. Regulators are usually large and self explanatory. Move it towards the “F” to gain balance speed or move it towards the “S” to slow it down. Use the proper tool to make the adjustment and be careful to stay away from the balance wheel which is the most delicate part of the watch. Most mechanical non-RR grade watches are considered calibrated if they gain or lose 30 seconds a day although, with patience, most clean 17j, 21j and 23j watches can be calibrated to a finer degree.

[Johnny P]

More eye candy. Thanks for sharing.

By the way, the $202 that you paid for your Rolex in 1962 would be worth about $1660 in today’s dollars. Does it still run well?

It does. Occasionally I will get it out and let it run for a week or so.

[Merc]

It does. Occasionally I will get it out and let it run for a week or so.

If you look for 1960s and 1970s Oyster Perpetuals on eBay, you’ll see them selling at auction for about what you paid for it in today’s dollars.

[Merc]

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Here’s photos of the 1869 18s 11j American Watch Co. (Waltham) 1857 model, P.S. Bartlett signature watch so, it’s the same model that was owned and carried by President Lincoln. I read about the message a watchmaker scribed on the full plate of Lincoln’s watch once the Civil War began but didn’t realize that it was an 1857 model.

President Lincoln apparently had two watches. One was and English made movement in a gold American case that was being repaired when the Civil War began. The watchmaker decided to engrave a message under the dial that was discovered 100 years later. He also wore an 11j 18 size American Waltham, Wm. Ellery signature model 1857 pocket watch.

[Art]

All good advice. Here are two sites that can be helpful for research purposes:

Adjusting a slow or fast watch by moving the regulator isn’t really difficult if you take your time and use an eye loup to see what you’re doing. Regulators are there to regulate the speed of the balance wheel by shortening or lengthening the hair spring. Regulators are usually large and self explanatory. Move it towards the “F” to gain balance speed or move it towards the “S” to slow it down. Use the proper tool to make the adjustment and be careful to stay away from the balance wheel which is the most delicate part of the watch. Most mechanical non-RR grade watches are considered calibrated if they gain or lose 30 seconds a day although, with patience, most clean 17j, 21j and 23j watches can be calibrated to a finer degree.

True.

In some watches the regulator is moved by a very fine screw that can actually be a bit difficult to see or a roller system. The Elgin had the roller deal which is easy to work with if you know what it is. As Merc said about the right tool = make sure how the regulator moves and get the right tool for the one you have even if it's just a small pointed tool for a freely moving regulator. If the regulator doesn't move relatively easily and you want the time adjusted it's a good idea to take it to a pro.

If you get a good working relationship with a watchmaker you may find that an occasional adjustment will be made gratis.

[Art]

It does. Occasionally I will get it out and let it run for a week or so.

This is a requirement to keep any mechanical watch running. If they are just left sitting for years they will often stop running or not run well until they are cleaned and lubricated. There are two watches I wear, the Hamilton Thin-o-matic (I feel a bit like Don Draper when I have that one on,) and an Omega pocket watch made in the 1980s I sometimes wear with jeans. I seldom wear the antique Waltham or Walter Starcke but I do fully wind them and let them run down once or twice a month.

[Merc]

True.

In some watches the regulator is moved by a very fine screw that can actually be a bit difficult to see or a roller system. The Elgin had the roller deal which is easy to work with if you know what it is. As Merc said about the right tool = make sure how the regulator moves and get the right tool for the one you have even if it's just a small pointed tool for a freely moving regulator. If the regulator doesn't move relatively easily and you want the time adjusted it's a good idea to take it to a pro.

If you get a good working relationship with a watchmaker you may find that an occasional adjustment will be made gratis.

Correct - Understanding how regulators work and how to get them to move is essential. If in doubt, ask a watchmaker.

Correct again - I have established email contact with the watchmaker at Northern Partners in MI and he shared some advice about the regulator on my Elgin RR watch. I’ve not sent him any watches to work on yet but he’s going to be my first choice.