The climate change

[lyman]

It's the rate of change and the associated disruption. Nobody knows how it ends, and in some regions changes are already coming faster than societies can adapt. And the pace is accelerating.

show us proof?

weather stats have not been reliable past 150 yrs or so ago,

[togor]

show us proof?

weather stats have not been reliable past 150 yrs or so ago,

You declared yourself beyond proof remember?

I asked you once if there was anything that would cause you to believe in climate change, and you said "no".

So you're not worth the legwork right now. If the subject doesn't interest you enough to lift a finger, nothing anyone else does will change that.

Nonetheless,

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

Contrary to your belief, we've had a handle on temperature, time and date measurements for a long time now.

[lyman]

you were unable to provide any,


as an example,, where does the money go when I ship UPS and select the green option?

does Mother Nature have a Paypal account for those carbon credits?

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You declared yourself beyond proof remember?

I asked you once if there was anything that would cause you to believe in climate change, and you said "no".

So you're not worth the legwork right now. If the subject doesn't interest you enough to lift a finger, nothing anyone else does will change that.

Nonetheless,

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

Contrary to your belief, we've had a handle on temperature, time and date measurements for a long time now.

a long time now,,,,

[togor]

you were unable to provide any,


as an example,, where does the money go when I ship UPS and select the green option?

does Mother Nature have a Paypal account for those carbon credits?

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a long time now,,,,

Look, we'd all love it if you were right and the climate wasn't changing. But it's a physical system, which means it can be physically measured, studied.

So, do you have an affirmative case for your position, based on solid measurements and mathematics, that the climate is not undergoing a sudden (in geologic terms) shift?

In other words why should anyone believe you over what they see with their own eyes?

I'm not interested in conspiracy theory style distractions which have no bearing on what is actually happening outside. Let's stick to physical data OK?

[lyman]

Look, we'd all love it if you were right and the climate wasn't changing. But it's a physical system, which means it can be physically measured, studied.

So, do you have an affirmative case for your position, based on solid measurements and mathematics, that the climate is not undergoing a sudden (in geologic terms) shift?

In other words why should anyone believe you over what they see with their own eyes?

I'm not interested in conspiracy theory style distractions which have no bearing on what is actually happening outside. Let's stick to physical data OK?

you claim to be a numbers guy, you should be able to see for yourself



however , you are blinded by the policies and beliefs you must adhere to , so you can stay in the good graces of your party's masters

[togor]

you claim to be a numbers guy, you should be able to see for yourself



however , you are blinded by the policies and beliefs you must adhere to , so you can stay in the good graces of your party's masters

You're not giving me anything.

The numbers I see say something big is going on! Do you have contrary numbers or not?

It's a physical system, able to be measured, and it's perfectly reasonable to discuss it that way.
Conspiracy questions about the meaning behind UPS optional green energy surcharges have nothing to tell us about what is actually going on out there.

At some point you have to offer a direct affirmative argument for your position, based in science. Saying "nope...nope...nope" etc. requires no knowledge whatsoever.

[lyman]

You're not giving me anything.

The numbers I see say something big is going on! Do you have contrary numbers or not?

It's a physical system, able to be measured, and it's perfectly reasonable to discuss it that way.
Conspiracy questions about the meaning behind UPS optional green energy surcharges have nothing to tell us about what is actually going on out there.

At some point you have to offer a direct affirmative argument for your position, based in science. Saying "nope...nope...nope" etc. requires no knowledge whatsoever.

wtf would I give you a thing?

science says we have been here how long?

and how many years has early been around?
and how many years between major environmental events?

time since last Ice age?


again, you assume , based on towing the party line, that we humans are evil, yet refuse to actually look at any facts,

[togor]

wtf would I give you a thing?

science says we have been here how long?

and how many years has early been around?
and how many years between major environmental events?

time since last Ice age?


again, you assume , based on towing the party line, that we humans are evil, yet refuse to actually look at any facts,

You certainly refuse to offer up any facts to support your conclusion that in fact nothing is going on out there.

That's not on me.

The analogy here, from my perspective, is that we are in a dispute over the conditions in a particular barreled action, which I report as having some case head separation problems in addition to being an inaccurate shooter. When I suggest we gauge the headspace and throat, you push back that gauges are untrustworthy, a scam put out there to sell more gizmos, that the ammo in question is known to be inaccurate and that their cases run short with suspect brass, and that everyone knows that headspace is never an issue, plus these barrels are poor shooters, always have been.

And meanwhile I'm left wondering why we can't just gauge the action and have a straightforward discussion about what those gauges tell us.

[lyman]

You certainly refuse to offer up any facts to support your conclusion that in fact nothing is going on out there.

That's not on me.

The analogy here, from my perspective, is that we are in a dispute over the conditions in a particular barreled action, which I report as having some case head separation problems in addition to being an inaccurate shooter. When I suggest we gauge the headspace and throat, you push back that gauges are untrustworthy, a scam put out there to sell more gizmos, that the ammo in question is known to be inaccurate and that their cases run short with suspect brass, and that everyone knows that headspace is never an issue, plus these barrels are poor shooters, always have been.

And meanwhile I'm left wondering why we can't just gauge the action and have a straightforward discussion about what those gauges tell us.

how long do you plan on playing the obtuse game?



go talk to Guffey about headspace , yall will get along nicely

[Johnny P]

Actually, in some countries they are breeding much faster than they can grow enough to feed the offspring.

[togor]

how long do you plan on playing the obtuse game?



go talk to Guffey about headspace , yall will get along nicely

It was an analogy. And a good one, IMO.

There's a saying,

"In God we trust, all others bring data!"

If you are in fact unwilling/unable to bring data to back up your claim that the climate is in fact stable, then there's really no way to distinguish it from hot air. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but we're talking about real world things that can be physically measured. Your intuition about climate change counts for nothing against hard data.

[lyman]

It was an analogy. And a good one, IMO.

There's a saying,

"In God we trust, all others bring data!"

If you are in fact unwilling/unable to bring data to back up your claim that the climate is in fact stable, then there's really no way to distinguish it from hot air. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but we're talking about real world things that can be physically measured. Your intuition about climate change counts for nothing against hard data.

the data is plentiful,

you are just blinded by your party line and cannot see it,


as I have said in the past,,


does Mother Nature have a bank account?

where are carbon credits deposited?

is algore jealous since you switched your allegiance to Fauci?



think about it this way,

your party can't decide if we are going to freeze to death or burn up , (look at the history in just the past 50 yrs)
global warming, oops nope, Global cooling,, um another oops, so lets call it climate change just to cover our arses,


didja find guffey yet?

[togor]

Do you have a data set that is the basis for your position or not?

If so, can you produce it?

I'm not interested in X-Files style arguments.

Two yes/no questions for your consideration.

[lyman]

Do you have a data set that is the basis for your position or not?

If so, can you produce it?

I'm not interested in X-Files style arguments.

Two yes/no questions for your consideration.

instead of pushing for data sets and other word salad BS that you think makes you look smart, how about going back and doing a simple re read of what was posted,


then you may understand,, (doubt it) that there is not X file, gas liight, insert whatever words here make you feel smarter than the avg bear,,,,


when you can answer the simple questions I have asked, then the discussion may go some where, but as it stands, you cannot,


twist turn and dance around them , you can do that all day, provide an answer, not seen it happen yet

[togor]

I get that you see yourself as more an internet poet than a science guy, but I can't say I follow your reasoning that numbers don't matter.

One doesn't need a PhD to be in the grocery biz, but the numbers still count. If "climate change" comes to the freezer units, someone better figure that out quick and call the repairman. (Hint: ice, melting in unexpected quantities. Sound familiar?) And even applying a bit of smarts to the daily tedium of inventory management: count pallets, or cases, if one can, instead of individual packages. The idea really is not that different from what scientists do: count stuff, take measurements, look for trends, get good #s. Persistent undercounts of Mexican Coca-Cola? Colt 45? Maybe we need to check the security cameras. Even in an era of barcodes and computers, someone still has to do it right.

No matter how long you stay Fox Mulder on this, I'm going to stick with a data-oriented approach that tries to cut through the BS. Arguing that the UPS green fuel option somehow disproves climate change might be one of the loopiest things I have seen in a long time. Sorry, but it's true.

You're determined to talk about "climate change FEELINGS" instead of the actual phenomenon. That is not a subject that interests me.