New to me Model 1896

[Darrylg60]

Not sure if I have type 2 handguard or cutdown type 1. If it's type 2, I'm missing the "legs". It has a crimped clip.
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[butlersrangers]

Your latest photos show your front sight base is mechanically fitted into a new dovetail and not brazed to the barrel.
It has been neatly done, but, not correct for original U.S. carbines.

A real model 1896 carbine hand-guard, for the 30 inch stock, has only one 'spring-clip' riveted to the wood to the rear of the back sight.

The front of the hand-guard is retained by a novel barrel-band, with sight-protecting 'ears'. The front-edge of the hand-guard fits into a cavity in the rear of the band.

ng-carb1.jpg

[Darrylg60]

I was looking forward to your response butlersrangers, thanks. I can see what someone has done regarding the front sight with your explanations. From what I've read, my handguard is from a Model 1892 since it has a crimped clip, not an 1896. I appreciate the knowledge this forum has to offer for newcomers like me.

[Dick Hosmer]

I have a HUGE amount of respect for the depth to which Chuck goes in his responses, but to my eyes that sight base still COULD be good. On a scale of bubba=50 and SA=100, that sight attachment is at least a 99, well into the gray area, or head-scratching range, and - FWIW - much, MUCH better done than the one currently under discussion at KCA (which has been adjudged "real" by some members).

[Darrylg60]

I've surfed a couple of other forum sites and I gotta say that you, (Dick), and butlersrangers are well respected for your comments and knowledge concerning Krags. I'm trying to see what, if anything other than a shortened/sporterized Krag I inherited. Its staying in the family with some history as I can find it. Thanks for your comments Dick. Did see an 1896 carbine rear sight on ebay...went for high dollar.

[butlersrangers]

Dick - I think this photo by 'Darylg60' clearly shows his front base to be mechanically held in place and not Springfield work.

Daryl is developing a 'good eye' to spot the 'crimp' in his hand-guard's spring-clip, which suggests the hand-guard is likely improvised from a model 1892 guard.
(I reviewed Daryl's first posted pictures. One shows that the rear of his hand-guard has the distinctive contour of the model 1892 wood guard).

reattached.jpg

[butlersrangers]

I don't like being a 'Devil's Advocate' or perceived as being argumentative.

(Truthfully, I've made more than my share of 'enemies' on Jouster2 and probably other Gun Forums.
I've been occasionally vilified, maybe because of my screen name, persistence, or for what I've typed).

It is fun to analyze the origin of Krag parts that look sort of right, but, are not.
Krag rifles & carbines, as well as parts, have been around for a long time.
Some creative things have been done by civilian dealers and owners to make useful 'parts guns'.

It is a challenge to unravel Krag riddles from just photographs. Especially, if photos are not always the best.

Daryl and Dick Hosmer are good sports, with healthy egos, and are honestly seeking the truth.
I think we are just trying to understand what Daryl actually has. Is it a Model 1896 carbine or not?

Here is my take:
It is a cut-down model 1896 rifle put into a real model 1896 carbine stock.
It has a rifle sight and rifle barrel-band, without a swivel.
An altered model 1892 hand-guard has been improvised to stay in place.
The front-sight is an altered original base, reshaped and installed in an improvised dovetail.

It's a handy short Krag, that a civilian nicely put together from available parts, for Hunting and with no intention to deceive.

Daryls Krag.jpgDaryls short krag.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

After looking at another pic - which I'd not seen before - I'll have to go with Chuck (B/R) but it IS still one of the better-looking re-dos!!

[Darrylg60]

Never having one before, let alone aware of their existence, I really like the way the whole short-rifle looks and will consider this my seed starter. Now, to get some decent ammo without breaking the bank.

[Kragrifle]

As to the difference in the 1892 and later front sight blade width, if you have seen them the difference is obvious.

[Darrylg60]

Seeing different pictures of cartouches, I had to hold my stock at an angle and I could make out the outline of the box. Reading Poyer's book, I know what should be stamped in there but sure is hard for me to make out other than the J. Quick question, are Joe Farmer's books still available? Thanks.
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[butlersrangers]

'Darrylg60' - Many of the wood stamps are faint on Krag stocks. This is because worn, but still useful parts, were refurbished, during arsenal rebuilding.

Stocks were scraped and skillfully sanded to appear like 'new'. Since the arms already had been accepted into service, there was generally no need to stike another 'acceptance cartouche'.

I believe your cartouche is located directly behind the 'saddle-ring bar'. Because of the narrow year-range, during which your stock was made - (1895, 1896, or 1897), the stamp is [J.S.A.] in script letters over the year. The initials are for Joseph Sumner Adams, assistant-foreman of the assembly room.

I've reoriented OP's cartouche and paired it with detail of similar 1896 carbine cartouche for context:

cartouche.jpg

[Darrylg60]

Thank you for the explanation butlersrangers.

[Kragrifle]

Interesting. Could I ask where you were able to get this information?
Thanks
Mike Raborn

[butlersrangers]

Mike - In Frank Mallory's book, "The Krag Rifle Story", (2nd edition), the author included in Appendix 12 (starting on page 224) - 1907 Instructions for Overhauling Small Arms.
This covered 1903 Springfield rifles, model 1898 and 1899 rifles and carbines, .45 cal. Springfield rifles, as well as, revolvers and shotguns. IMHO - This gives good insight into the reconditioning process.
Attached are a couple of snippets from Appendix 12.

"U.S. Military Arms Inspector Marks", by Anthony C. Daum and Charles W. Pate, has good information on Joseph Sumner Adams and his [J.S.A.] cartouche.

I had also, independently, found information on 'Sumner' Adams and family in U.S. Census, Massachusetts, and State of Maine Census Data.

I hope this answers your question.