Help needed with Krag carbine

[ghostdevilguy]

Ok, so what you are saying is that, everything on this rifle is likely real carbine parts, but it was not assembled at an armory, becasue the dates of the parts makes for an odd combination.


I am not anywhere near to an expert on these guns, that's why I came here. So thanks for helping me get a better idea of what I have

[5MadFarmers]

I am not saying this is right, but I have read several things that have said that the 1898 carbines where later refitted with 1898c rear sights, and 1899 stocks.

While that's not impossible it's not relevant.

Now, I have no idea when the 1898c rear sight was withdrawn,

Before the 2nd block 1899s as they received 1896c sights. That's the key.

but there is a years gap between the 1st and 2rd blocks of the 1899 carbine ... if the 1898c rear sight was withdrawn sometime in 1900, there is a possibility for this rifle to have been rebuilt at an armory like this.

Not in that stock as that stock was put onto a gun, new, after the 1898c was withdrawn.

Its the stock date. It it was "1899" it'd be possible. "1900" and "1901" were stamped on new guns after the 1898c sight was already withdrawn. The salient point is the stock that gun is in was put onto a new 1899 carbine in the summer of 1900 after the 1898c sight was withdrawn. Then, when that 1899 carbine was returned, that 1899 carbine was disassembled and the stock eventually was put on the gun you have now.

Is that clearer? The stock date is the key. It's second block. It's a stock that was put onto a new gun in 1900 as field replacement stocks didn't get those stamps. The armory, when rebuilding guns, wouldn't have put that sight on a gun after the 1898c was withdrawn - it'd get the 1896c or (if late enough) 1901 or 1902. So the 1896c, 1901c, and 1902c are the only possible sights we'd expect to see on a gun sitting in a stock stamped "1900." In a stock stamped "1899" or without a stamp the 1896c, 1898c, 1901c, and 1902c are all possible. For the same reason a gun sitting in a stock stamped "1901" wouldn't be expected to have that sight either.

It's the stock date.

[ghostdevilguy]

Got it, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up

[5MadFarmers]

I'll add a few other observations.

If somebody was trying to fake a gun they'd not likely put after-market sling swivels, or any swivels, on it. Tends to indicate surplus barrel assembly.

The barrels on the 1898c and first block 1899s are different from the 2nd and 3rd block 1899s. I'd wager it's the earlier one.

It's unlikely, but not impossible, that a surplus dealer would grab a carbine barrel and randomly screw it into a receiver which happens to sit in the 1898c range. Odds are very low. Just on frequency distribution.

There is no way to know for sure but it's likely that is what's left of an 1898c. Receiver and barrel anyway. As I mentioned in the book, it's not a value positive proposition to convert an 1899c into an 1898c in the 1899 stock. Therefore it's not something that somebody would go out of the way to do. Converting an 1898c back to an 1898c is value positive. Turning an 1899c into the 1898c altered to 1899c is a value negative.

For $400 you did very well. I'd not bother changing anything - just fix the bolt and plug the stock holes. Then leave it be.

[ghostdevilguy]

I am probably going to sell this rifle, ammo is a little too pricey for me, and I don't reload yet. I also don't like having a gun I rarely shoot. So I am trying to figure out a fair value for this one.

Also, the sling swivels look like they have been with the rifle for a long time, so I think that adds to it's credibility. The sling is a 1907 pattern sling with no marks on it, it looks old, but I don't know.

[ghostdevilguy]

Also, is this rifle considered an antique? I know that krags below a certain number are considered antique but I don't know what that number is.

[Ramair]

Ghost, 1898 and earlier. Rob

[ghostdevilguy]

Ghost, 1898 and earlier. Rob

Thanks

[madsenshooter]

I see lots of those swivels, I have a set on one of my cutdowns that was likely done in the 1950's, as it has some diamond patterns of slightly lighter wood inletted into the Italian walnut stock. The swivels may be from some surplus dealer or home gunsmith supply. The sporterized stock my swivels are on was once an 1899 stock that had been inletted for an 1896 action.

[Dick Hosmer]

Also, is this rifle considered an antique? I know that krags below a certain number are considered antique but I don't know what that number is.

152670 - Krags below that are safe enough for Girl Scouts, and no threat to anyone's life or limb - higher, they are fiendish weapons of mass destruction - the thinking behind that? Your tax dollars at work.

[ghostdevilguy]

152670 - Krags below that are safe enough for Girl Scouts, and no threat to anyone's life or limb - higher, they are fiendish weapons of mass destruction - the thinking behind that? Your tax dollars at work.

Thanks

[ghostdevilguy]

I see lots of those swivels, I have a set on one of my cutdowns that was likely done in the 1950's, as it has some diamond patterns of slightly lighter wood inletted into the Italian walnut stock. The swivels may be from some surplus dealer or home gunsmith supply. The sporterized stock my swivels are on was once an 1899 stock that had been inletted for an 1896 action.

I was pretty sure the swivels were added on later, thanks for confirming. When I sell the rifle they will not go with it, I am going to throw them in my parts bin where they will stay until I have a use for them. The sling that was on this rifle is an older 1907 pattern sling that I am thinking about putting on my Garand.

[jon_norstog]

GD, you have a very interesting carbine there. My own thought is, "it is what it is." If you are not going to shoot it or keep it around, get a replacement bolt, put the swivels back on and sell it as is. It's gotta be worth the sum of its parts at least.

It's rare enough I probably would not use it as a hunting rifle. Or maybe I would.

Good luck.

jn