USMC Winchester A5 Springfield Marine Mount Rifle in France 1917

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Let's concentrate on identifying the grass. Is it American grass or French grass? Personally, I prefer Mexican grass, but that likely won't help solve this debate, or would it???

Mike

Thank you, Mike. I thought it was funny.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

He's honestly lost guys.

1) There is nothing in that pic that disqualifies it as being taken in the USA.

2) That it is missing its AEF number, lends credence to have been taken somewhere other than in France. No one has ANY documents that state this photograph was taken in France.

This picture is missing it's critical bone fides of AEF origin - its AEF number and the accompanying dialog of name of photographer, when, where, and who therein. The weight of reasonable doubt is not only present, it is probable. No argument presented thus far refutes that statement.

One of the pictures in the segment in question is a picture of the USMC publicity officer. This segment might have been targeted for a publicity piece for the Marines, and the photo in question provided by the Marines. Many questions with no answers.



Note:
More humor needed.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Please don't plant that seed. Lol

It took me a minute to catch on to the humor in your response. Another good laugh!

[cplnorton]

2) That it is missing its AEF number, lends credence to have been taken somewhere other than in France. No one has ANY documents that state this photograph was taken in France.

This picture is missing it's critical bone fides of AEF origin - its AEF number and the accompanying dialog of name of photographer, when, where, and who therein. The weight of reasonable doubt is not only present, it is probable. No argument presented thus far refutes that statement.

Ok I'm literally drawing arrows now on the pics, because you still claim there is no documentation that says this is in France, and there are no AEF Numbers.

So I'm trying to make this as clear as I can get.

The MARINES did not take this photograph. THE ARMY Signal Corps did. The ARMY signal Crops assigns their own number for pictures taken in the AEF. This picture has a AEF number for the ARMY Signal Corps.

ARMY AEF SIGNAL CORPS NUMBERS 4337 and 4338







AND Then the Photogrpaher was again the ARMY Singal Corps. AND under DESCRIPTION It says it was IN FRANCE. It SAYS it was taken in 1917.

[cplnorton]

This picture is missing it's critical bone fides of AEF origin - its AEF number and the accompanying dialog of name of photographer, when, where, and who therein. The weight of reasonable doubt is not only present, it is probable. No argument presented thus far refutes that statement.

Note:
More humor needed.

Jim, literally EVERY argument on why you say this pic wasn't taken in the FRANCE is answered on those tags.

Seriously guys I'm out of ideas on how to explain this too him. If anyone has any ideas on how to explain this to him I'm all ears, because I don't know how much more clear I can get than this.


Name of Photographer: Army Signal Corps


AEF number: Army Signal Corps 4337 and 4338


When: 1917


Where: FRANCE


Who: US MARINES

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I agree. You don't have a clue as to what I am saying. Not a clue.



Note:
I tried to find that photographer in the US Census data with no luck. Maybe a little help with that exact location and date? Please advise.

[Mike D]

Back up a minute. Is all this over whether or not the A5 was sent/used overseas during the war?

Mike

[cplnorton]

Back up a minute. Is all this over whether or not the A5 was sent/used overseas during the war?

Mike

Not even that. Jim is saying this picture wasn't taken in France. I'm saying that picture was TAKEN IN FRANCE. That IS literally the argument. lol

I don't even want to try to argue with him on that rifle, or the fact it was used in France. lol That would be a nightmare to try to argue with him.

[Kaliman]

But Steve, what if FRANCE is an acronym for a location in the United States ?

[Mike D]

I understand what your argument is. But, WAS the A5/'03 combo used overseas during WWII?

Mike

[JOHN COOK]

I have enjoyed all I can stand. I think I"ll skip the 1903/1904 page for a few days. Maybe the dust will settle and they will find out it is FAKE NEWS by the Signal Corp. and the photos were actually shot at Quantico.

[cplnorton]

I understand what your argument is. But, WAS the A5/'03 combo used overseas during WWII?

Mike

Yes Mike it was. You say WWII, but I imagine you mean WWI?

Either way the 1903 A5 snipers were used in both wars. In WWII I can only verify the Marines used them. But in WWI, the Army actually ordered the exact same A5 rifle off WRA as the Marines had received in 1917. And the real twist is, the Army had more "Marine Mount" A5's built by Winchester than the Marines actually did. And there was even a time in the last month of the war where the Marine A5 sniper was the "official" sniper rifle of the US Army. lol But it was just a placeholder they say for the Model of 1918 sniper. But the war ended within weeks of this and the Model of 1918 never shipped. And history has completely jacked up the real story of the Winchester produced A5 snipers.

I've been tempted to post what really happened with the A5 story, but it would be a fight of epic proportions with you know you. He can't even take me saying this pic was taken in France, when it says it was taken in France. It's just not worth it.

[cplnorton]

I understand what your argument is. But, WAS the A5/'03 combo used overseas during WWII?

Mike

I re-read my response and it wasn't as clear as it could be.

Yes both the Army and Marines had A5 scopes, mounted on M1903 rifles by Winchester, in France, while the war was going on.

[Smokeeaterpilot]

Yes Mike it was. You say WWII, but I imagine you mean WWI?

Either way the 1903 A5 snipers were used in both wars. In WWII I can only verify the Marines used them. But in WWI, the Army actually ordered the exact same A5 rifle off WRA as the Marines had received in 1917. And the real twist is, the Army had more "Marine Mount" A5's built by Winchester than the Marines actually did. And there was even a time in the last month of the war where the Marine A5 sniper was the "official" sniper rifle of the US Army. lol But it was just a placeholder they say for the Model of 1918 sniper. But the war ended within weeks of this and the Model of 1918 never shipped. And history has completely jacked up the real story of the Winchester produced A5 snipers.

I've been tempted to post what really happened with the A5 story, but it would be a fight of epic proportions with you know you. He can't even take me saying this pic was taken in France, when it says it was taken in France. It's just not worth it.

Army ordering A5s with "Marine Mounts" that sounds familiar....

[cplnorton]

Army ordering A5s with "Marine Mounts" that sounds familiar....

And I have to give mad props to Andrew on this. Andrew uncovered almost the complete story of the A5 sniper at the archives. I had pulled all the WRA WWI documents from Cody that detailed a lot of the story. But the ones that literally spell out everything barney style, Andrew found those at the Archives

So mad props to Andrew because his documents completely rewrote the whole story of the A5 sniper.