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only issue I ever had was if it was hot and I got sweaty, the last round would sometimes slip out from under my thumb, and I would have to push is back in there,
never really slowed me down too much, (and I learned to wipe my hand if I touched my sweaty head,,,)
folks that poo poo on bolt actions really should go watch a games or similar match and see a good shooter run a bolt gun in RapidsComment
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A good friend of mine was a serious Wimbledon shooter (20 shots at a thousand yards.) He said the key is to shoot fast -- wait for the right wind conditions and bang out as many shots as you can before the wind changes. Many top shooters chose bolt actions because they could shoot those faster than either the M1 or M14.Comment
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The "ping" of the M1 Rifle clip was almost deafening, and could apparently be heard over the noise of battle by the enemy hundreds of yards away, or so legend has it.Comment
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BS,, and has been disproved many times,
I was amazed on my first trip to Perry, standing behind the lines during a Garand Match, at how quiet it was, I was thinking it would be deafening, but 50 yrds or so behind the line and you did not need ear pro, and never heard a ping,
heard gunshots, but not loud,Comment
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Now there's an urban legend for you. Yes, the clip does make a 'ping' when it ejects. And no, no enemy took advantage of that to charge while the American was reloading, because:
1. Americans don't come in ones -- they come in squads, platoons and companies. Just because ONE American is reloading, that doesn't mean the 100+ other men in his company are doing the same thing.
2. Lie down in front of me just out of grenade range and let me shoot over you. When you hear the 'ping' get up and charge. You won't make it to your knees.Comment
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Fits right in with the Japanese soldier grinding the mum off his rifle just before they surrendered. Didn't want to embarrass the emperor.Comment
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When the U.S. soldiers occupied Japan at the end of WWII the mums were removed off the rifles by both civilians and soldiers with whatever was handy. Some were ground, some were defaced with a file, and some had chisel marks across the mum. They were not done on the battlefield.Comment
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[QUOTE=Now consider this -- you and I are going to fire 100 rounds as fast as we can -- you have a SMLE, I have a Springfield. We start with loaded magazines. After 5 rounds, I have to reload. You keep firing for another 5 rounds, then you need to reload -- with 5-round clips. At the end of the exercise, I've crammed 19 5-round clips into my rifle, and you've used 18 -- not much difference.[/QUOTE]
I can get off 14-16 rounds with a Lee Enfield and generally hit a silhouette target at 200 yards in one minute. I've never exceeded 12 with any Mauser Type rifle and that's starting with 5 in both rifles. On the Rapid fire pre WWI drills at 300 yards exercise in the Lee Enfield qualification in which the soldier was given 15 rounds IIRC the rifle was loaded with four to start which necessitated 3 reloads. As the below video indicates firing all 15 was not required and a decent shot could qualify without firing the allotted number of cartridges.
When it comes to reloading practice is absolutely essential and often neglected. In Basic training in the Army not only did we never do rapid fire on the "Trainfire" range but we never did a reloading drill. We did have to reload on the assault and defense courses but no score was kept and the exercises were not timed. A reloading drill for this purpose is firing a timed stage in which after expending the last round in the weapon the shooter reloads and fires again on a scored target. To illustrate the difference this can make, I was the last person in My agency authorized to carry a revolver. I used Safariland Comp II speed loaders for reloads. At the end everyone else was using an auto pistol at qualifications and I know probably none of them ever did a reloading drill on their own time. An example was a stage on the qualifying course (we shot at ranges from three to 50 yards) at 7 yards there was a stage where you fired the last two rounds in your handgun reloaded and fired two more in 20 seconds. On the reloading drills I almost always got off the first shot out of my "wheelgun" after the reload on the reloading stages. If the other dudes (and dudettes) practiced at all I should have been last.
There are other advantages to the Lee Enfield in rapid fire, though starting with 10 (or eleven) does help. Other advantages the Enfield system has include: the smoothness of the action, the bolt handle being behind the trigger guard, the 70 degree bolt rotation by the Enfield as opposed to the 90 degree rotation required on Mauser bolts, the shorter bolt travel due to the locking lugs being at the rear of the bolt instead of the front in the Mauser system. This last also eliminates the need to rotate your face out of the path of the bolt if you've been trained, as I was in the army, to get your face as close to the back sight as possible. I forgot this once shooting an '03 and got a nasty mouse during a rapid fire drill when the cocking piece smacked me right on the cheek bone.
Also, after the Boer war the Brits completely scrapped their rifle training system and instituted a new one that was very practical. In fact it may have been the first practical, comprehensive marksmanship program by any army. Army rifle training in Basic Training when I was in was a dinosaur compared to Brit training in 1914. There is a youtube channel called "British Muzzle Loaders" that has a comprehensive four part series on British marksmanship training in the years leading up to WW I. I am including the section on "The Mad Minute" that, at one point shows the qualification course while debunking a lot of the claims about the "Mad Minute."
If you're interested the complete four part series is well worth watching.
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But you didn't train with the M1903!! Back in the day, the Army trained on rapid fire extensively with the Springfield. General "Red" Harris used to write a column for Infantry Magazine, and in one column, he discussed a rapid fire training incident. In the midst of the rattle-click of the drill, there was a BANG! Someone had got a loaded round in a clip of dummy cartridges.
Harris said everyone was stunned -- then one of the men at the target line indicated a perfect pinwheel hit!!
So, yes. In the Springfield days the US Army DID do rapid fire drills -- both with live and dummy ammo.
Thanks.Comment
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You're welcome, Vern. I always enjoy your posts.
At the start of the video there is a bit on Brit riflemen buying time to evacuate some artillery pieces. Coggins, writing about the British Army said you can always find paintings about "saving the guns," or "The Last Stand of the Mudfordshires." These works usually neglect to say what piece of noodledom got "the guns" or the unfortunate "Mudforshires" in that position in the first place
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Britishmuzzleloader,
Bloke on the Range,
and Paper Cartridges
are all great Utube channelsComment
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