Original 03A4 with possibly original installed M73B1 scope

[cplnorton]

I think the early ones were cut by hand. But unless I'm mistaken and Jim will correct me if I'm wrong. By this serial range they were just the normal regular cut with 2 sweeping cuts or however they describe it.




And I almost think it might be the lousy pic under by bright photo lights on the front swivel being refinished. I'm not seeing really any sings in person of it being refinished. I think it's just my photo lights drown out stuff and change colors on items.

[cplnorton]

You do have my interest peaked though on the pitch. I haven't heard of that before. I only have ever seen one A4 I thought was probably original and that is the one Johnny Peppers has. And I don't think that one had tar on it. And I know I never saw pics of the one that sold on gunbroker earlier this year that was supposed to be NIB, I only heard about it. So I never caught that one to even notice.

Was that something that was supposed to be done at the factory at Remington? Or was it more a field mod or something done at the armory depots later on? I can sort of see if as a field mod in a wet environment by a armorer or something, but I sort of don't see it happening at Remington. I know I have field reports of guys pooring water out of their Weavers every morning in some of the documents I've seen. So to me it makes more sense it was a field mod or something at least in my crazy brain.

But you think it was done at Remington on them when new?

[chuckindenver]

i have owned a few M73B1s with the tar seal, and have seen a few more on other rifles..
the first 1000 A4s would have a hand cut pre war C stock.. others would be double mill cut

[jgaynor]

Cpl Nortons rifle was probably about the 10,000th A4 assembled which puts it about halfway thru the first order. It was likely assembled in September of 1943. So not an early A4.

The bolt notch is an original Keystone manufacture. Keystone supplied stocks to Remington and as spare parts.

The serial number on Cpl Nortons rifle (10,809) is an early 2nd Variation(no resettable zero scale), tracks to within about 1500 units of the rifle's sn. On the other hand the picture of the M73B1 with the tar on the data plate is a 3rd Variation (sn's run from about 30,000 to 36,000). Several 3rd variation scopes have shown up on auction sites in the last few years still packed in the original, sealed Weaver cartons. The dates on the cartons, that I have seen, have been in the spring of 1945 - well after A4 production ceased. For this reason and others my personal opinion is that no M1904A4 rifles were equipped with 3rd variation scopes at Remington. Those that entered service did so as spare parts somewhat later.

I will take a look thru my M73B1 pics and see if any earlier variants have the sealant on the data plate. If the tar was applied the most likely place where it would have been done is at Weaver (IMO).

[Johnny P]

I am still having photo posting issues, or I would post the photo of the scope on mine. No oozing sealant on my scope, and the electro penciled serial number is still in the white.

My rifle was bought from a retired Navy dentist who said he bought it out of Benecia either before or at the time he retired.

[jgaynor]

johnny, I use photo bucket but i just took a look at tinypic.

It looks like you can upload photos from a file/folder on your PC to a folder/album of "images" on tiny pic.

From there just select the "images" tab from the toolbar at the top of the screen.

Click on the picture you want and you should get a larger image. On the left side of the screen is a box entitled "Grab Your Code" - Select the box entitled "Direct link for layouts" - Click on the box then paste the picture' s link into the message reply box on the forum.

People who see your response will have to click on the link to see the image. Doing it that way gets you around the image size restrictions built in the forum's own attachment feature.

Regards

Jim

[cplnorton]

I was thinking of something this morning. If my scope had a sealant around that plate wouldn't it have covered up the Serial No rollstamp and the electropenciled serial? My dataplate covers up a tiny bit of the serial no rollstamp already, so I don't see how any sealant could have been put on it without covering this up.

I'm not sure who electropenciled the serial on the scopes. I imagine either Weaver or the military. But if Weaver did it they probably would have put the rollstamp and electropencil down further on the tube. And say the military did it, it would for sure have never had any sealant on it because it's electropenciled in a spot that would have been covered.

[Johnny P]

Jim, thanks for the help. I have been using Tinypic for years, and occasionally there would be periods when it just didn't work, but not for two days. I could go through the whole uploading, downloading, and the link would be on the forum but wouldn't open. Suddenly this morning it was working again, so suspect Tinypic.

Anyway, here is the photo of the scope on my nice 03-A4.

[jgaynor]

[snip]

I'm not sure who electropenciled the serial on the scopes. I imagine either Weaver or the military. But if Weaver did it they probably would have put the rollstamp and electropencil down further on the tube. And say the military did it, it would for sure have never had any sealant on it because it's electropenciled in a spot that would have been covered.

Steve, The scope markings were applied by Weaver. Only place where it was practical when you think about it and Remingon did not have marking in their contract.

Not all of the Weaver 330C's or M73B1's had the goo under the data plate. It appears to be a feature that arrived with later production

[cplnorton]

Johnny, I have always loved that rifle. I remember the first time I saw the pic of it and drooling all over my keyboard!

Jim, do you have any data on how many A4's are out there that escaped rebuild?

Thanks for your help gentlemen.

[chuckindenver]

heres another pic.. of another sealed scope.

[jgaynor]

Jim, do you have any data on how many A4's are out there that escaped rebuild?

Steve, only a WAG. Probably 1 to 3 %. Most of those rifles will show substantial wear but somehow bypassed normal ordnance channels before getting into civilian hands. Some A4's went to foreign MAP programs. I have sn records of about 600 that were shredded at Anniston. Also several dozen that existed only as barreled actions or stripped receivers (CMP).

The relatively common "mint" A4's almost always show signs or marks of rebuild/refinish. To encounter one with the original scope is a real longshot.

Your rifle may have been used extensively in training thus accounting for the apparent barrel wear but relatively good condition of the other surfaces.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards,

Jim

[cplnorton]

Thanks Jim. That was sort of my thinking. Used in training or something along those lines.

I appreciate the help Gentlemen.