Gewehr 88 Model 1888 Commission Rifle

[ldpfeifer]

I am looking for ammo for this WW2 war prize my uncle sent home in 41. It has the "S" markings that it was converted, but the barrel slugged was .311. It DOES NOT have the cut out for the spritzer bullet or any other modifications that went with the "S".
8mm Remington Mauser rounds will not chamber due to the bullet I believe. They will go in about half way and stick. I do think this gun still takes the Patrone 88 bullet which sat on 7.92x57 round. Any idea where I can find some ammo for this old relic of past, or some type of bullet to use on top of the Remington Mauser rounds at a lower powder charge that will work?
Thanks in advance for any help.

[kcw]

200gr., .318 Woodleigh bullets @ MidwayUSA.com How tight they'll fit in the Remington cases after pulling .323 bullets is questionable. I've heard of guys that have standard .323 dies putting a bit of a crimp on the case neck so as to hold the .318's from dropping into the case. Never tried it myself.

[RCS]

Model 1888 rifle

You should be able to find some original military or SP cartridges for your Model 1888 rifle to see if they chamber. Gun shows and cartridge collectors have these early M1888 cartridges or re-slug your bore again

[randy langford]

Something is not right with that chamber get a bore light and check it out my non altered 88 will chamber a standard 196 grain 8 mm round just not safe to fire and any rifle with the s stamp should have the altered chamber they didn't rebore the barrel they just opened up the throat as I understand it.

[kcw]

"They will go in only about half way and stick". Following up on Mr. Langford, I'm thinking that there's a piece of broken shell, or some such, stuck in the chamber neck. I just compared the ogive on a factory Remington RN vs. Turk GI round by scribing each in the muzzle of one of my guns. The Remington ogive mark is only about 1/64th longer than the comparable mark left on the Turk bullet, so the Remington bullet design isn't what's keeping that round from chambering. The original S modification (GEW88S) consisted of merely reaming out the forward end of the chamber, the .311 barrel was retained. The later 88/05 mod included the addition of the 98 stripper clip guides.
Although the S mod 88's were widely used with .323 military ammo right through WWII, there's still plenty of warning about the use of the higher pressure European spec ammo. To be certain, I'd avoid the high pressure WWII Turk stuff if you come across it. That stuff exceeds 3,000fps out of my Turk M38's. On the other hand Remington and Winchester's domestic soft point 8mm ammo has generally been considered to be considerably downloaded from the European spec.

[ldpfeifer]

Just got home and read the last 2 replies. I will pull the bolt and use an engine bore scope and light to see if there is something in there blocking the chamber.

[randy langford]

Let us know what you find Factory Winchester and Remington ammo should chamber and is considered safe in these 88 rifles. Privi-Partizan is loaded to the hotter European standard and as has been said Turks like theirs super hot!

[kcw]

Let us know what you find Factory Winchester and Remington ammo should chamber and is considered safe in these 88 rifles. Privi-Partizan is loaded to the hotter European standard and as has been said Turks like theirs super hot!

My understanding is that that the Remington & Winchester 8x57 products are downloaded specifically in anticipation of circumstances such as this.

[ldpfeifer]

Is there a way to insert a picture? I used a bore scope and took a picture with my iphone. The bore looks OK. When magnified with the cylinder bore scope, you could see a lot of scratches that I didn't even know was there. It appears the bore is good but, it has a stop or shoulder area the makes a dramatic transition. I tried to insert the 8mm Remington Mauser rounds. They will go to the shoulder. I did find an old empty case, AK47 I think, 7.62 by 37....it will only chamber about half way and leaves a definite mark on the case about half way. Something is way out of wack here. I know the gun is a WW2 German war prize sent home from Germany, but now I am wondering if it could be chambered for Argentina?? The gun is Steyr and 1891 with the "S". This gun was packed with grease until February of this year. It sat in our old farm house since I was a kid.
So now is there a way to make a casting of the chamber area? I was thinking some paraffin wax. I am not sure I will ever be able to find a round for this thing.....then again, maybe I should leave it alone as someone is trying to tell me something.......

[ldpfeifer]

It worked...the pictures I mean......Lyle

[kcw]

It worked...the pictures I mean......Lyle

Steyr? Are you certain that you don't have an Austrian "straight pull" Model 95? Those rebarrled to 8x56R between the wars were stamped with an "S" on the receiver, approx. 12mm tall. The German police made extensive use of those rifles during WWII. How about a pic of the gun? "S", and the Hungarian "H" stamped rifles, should not be used with the original 8x60R ammo. Outfits such as Sportsman's Guide were selling large quantities of original 1938, German stamped ammo about ten years ago. You should be able to find it at gunshows Your 3rd chamber pic seems to show the less pronounced shoulder of the Austrian round, as compared to that of the 8x57.

[kcw]

Well obviously your 1891 made gun can't be a Model 95! If it is in fact Austrian, it's more likely it's the Model 1888-90 (Repetier Gewehr M88-90); which was the improved, smokeless proofed version of the original black powder Model 1888 originally chambered in 8x50. At this point you might want to obtain some "Cerro-Safe" material an do a chamber cast. Cerro-Safe can be obtained from supply houses such as Brownell's, et al. Following the directions, you melt it down on your stove top and pour it into the chamber to make a cast. It can be reused. The thing of it is, the Austrian "straight pulls" started out in 8x50, as the army changed to 8x56R (round nosed), and then to 8x56R (pointed) many older rifles were modified (which I believe is what the "S" stamp on yours signifies). But wait! Then we have counties such as Greece taking the M88-90's making carbines out of them in 7.92mm! If your do indeed have the Austrian rifle, my gut hunch is that it's been rebarreled to 8x56R-S, but I just don't know enough about them to be certain. That's were a Cerro-Safe cast comes.

[kcw]

As to your concern about the "abrupt stop" in the chamber neck, a good, sharp finish reamer will make such a edge. But something concerns me about pics #1 & #2. Am I seeing another, faint "circle" just ahead the edge you're speaking of in those two pics? The Germans did make some steel cased 8x57. If your gun is in fact an "S" 1888 Commission rifle, is that faint circle actually the forward edge of the chamber, and that far more pronounced rearward edge actually the rear end of a broken steel case neck? It would be odd for a case to be broken so smoothly, but if there were a defect (ie caused by a forming die) it might break off that way. This is where a Cerro Safe Cast would help.

[kcw]

However, my understanding of the 1888 Commission's "S" mod was that the forward end of the chamber was taper reamed so as to allow the .323 bullet to "gently" swag down into to the .318 barrel. I would think that a taper wouldn't leave an abrupt forward chamber edge; which brings me back to the Austrian rifle.

[ldpfeifer]

Here are some pictures of the gun. The date is 1890, I think I put 1891 in another post and you can see the "S" but under the "S" is also a CE. The serial number is 1540 with a letter "P" under the serial number, except the bolt is marked 3XXX. I do not have it in front of me. The last 7 inches of the stock has been sawed off, but there is a wood block in the receiver that has made this a "Barney Fife" gun, a single shot that is easily removed, this missing stock?. No other mods have been done to it other than the deflector on the end of the bolt. I will upload some more as I can only upload 5 at a time for pictures. Thanks for the help guys....Lyle