We're as bloodthirsty as we ever were ...

[leftyo]

You're all right and you're all wrong.

America is a big place with pockets of extreme poverty, sh*tholes, that would be right at home in the "turd world". And UK publications are happy to write about our shortcomings. (Google "hookworm guardian" for an example.)

Some of the poverty is in minority communities, but God Almighty, Appalachia too.

And let's not kid ourselves, a good chunk of the Trump base are rural whites seeing their communities dry up and blow away, towards third world standards, and they're wanting somewhere to fix the blame. That's hypocritical--when the brown skins are poor it's they're own damn fault but when it's the pale skins living in their own filth well then dammit blame the liberals. Some here actually appear to think like that and its pretty wide of the mark. People are people. Period.

big difference between our ghetto's and a lot of the third world, and if your life experience comes simply from your tv, you dont have a damned clue. pretty big stretch your making there insinuating everyone else is racist.

[clintonhater]

But intrinsically, we're all the same stuff.

Well, human DNA is supposed to be 99% identical to the DNA of chimpanzees; so are "we" and chimpanzees almost the "same stuff," except for that trivial 1% difference? The "outcome" that "circumstances effect" is what we ARE, which isn't "people" in general but "a person" in particular.

Take air conditioning out of the southern US and it will start to look and act "turd worldly" pretty quick.

Really too ridiculous to warrant a rebuttal, but just for the record I suppose I should say that I grew up in the South in an un-airconditioned house (until I was 12), attended an un-airconditioned school, and despite the great discomforts of summer heat, I'm quite sure I inhabited no part of the Turd World. I'm even surer that wasn't true for wealthier people living in houses with 10, 12, even 14 ft. ceilings, huge windows & attic fans.

[togor]

Really too ridiculous to warrant a rebuttal, but just for the record I suppose I should say that I grew up in the South in an un-airconditioned house (until I was 12), attended an un-airconditioned school, and despite the great discomforts of summer heat, I'm quite sure I inhabited no part of the Turd World. I'm even surer that wasn't true for wealthier people living in houses with 10, 12, even 14 ft. ceilings, huge windows & attic fans.

An inability to grasp the point doesn't change the fact. According to the 1860 census, the Confederacy had 12% of the industrial capacity of the Union states. The North had 11 times as many ships, produces 15X more iron, 17X more textiles, twice the density/square-mile of railroads, and 3X an amount in rolling stock. The Confederacy was "turd world" in comparison to the Union! We know it wasn't the people, so what was it? The climate in the north was simply more hospitable for people, for industry, for getting things done. Steel mills are hellishly hot anywhere, but worse in the summer. Humidity doesn't help one bit. You see it now in places like India. Air conditioning is a game-changer. The south was settled primarily for the value of the agricultural crops that benefited from the climate. These days, with climate controls, an automotive engine plant feels the same inside whether it is in Michigan, Georgia, or Mexico.

South Africa: where did the Dutch and English settle? At the highest possible latitudes.

[bruce]

I was born in 1956. The first time I ever saw a AC was when we moved from the country into the city in 1962. There was a single room AC in a single room at the local school .. that was the first AC I ever saw. A little while later, my parents bought window units that nicely cooled the house. That was about 1964. From that point on every house, school, etc. was air-conditioned. Would not willingly return to the pre-AC era. It was a big step forward when AC came to the South. Would expect it was the same for other parts of the nation.

AC made a tremendous difference in every part of the US. Tremendous swaths of the desert SW, etc. only developed large sustained populations due to AC. Older retired people would not have flooded to Fla., Az., etc. apart from AC. It is the exact same for the large cities. Buildings in any major city went up, up, up b/c of AC. Without AC, the windows would have to be able to be opened. Without AC, there would be no shopping malls, large shopping centered, computer operations, etc. W/O AC, modern healthcare would be drastically impacted in every level from emergency rooms/surgeries to patient care, rooms, etc. It is hard to conceive how nursing homes could operate at current levels w/o AC. There are untold numbers of retired people who lacking oxygen and AC would simply not be able to continue living. AC was and remains a game changer, not merely in the South where humidity is high and temperatures soar in the Summer but in the increasingly crowded cities along the coastline going to the NE as well as of course out of the way places like Vegas, LA, etc., where the current lifestyle absent AC would be virtually unsustainable. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[clintonhater]

I was born in 1956. The first time I ever saw a AC was when we moved from the country into the city in 1962. There was a single room AC in a single room at the local school .. that was the first AC I ever saw. A little while later, my parents bought window units that nicely cooled the house. That was about 1964. From that point on every house, school, etc. was air-conditioned. Would not willingly return to the pre-AC era. It was a big step forward when AC came to the South. Would expect it was the same for other parts of the nation.

AC made a tremendous difference in every part of the US. Tremendous swaths of the desert SW, etc. only developed large sustained populations due to AC. Older retired people would not have flooded to Fla., Az., etc. apart from AC. It is the exact same for the large cities. Buildings in any major city went up, up, up b/c of AC. Without AC, the windows would have to be able to be opened. Without AC, there would be no shopping malls, large shopping centered, computer operations, etc. W/O AC, modern healthcare would be drastically impacted in every level from emergency rooms/surgeries to patient care, rooms, etc. It is hard to conceive how nursing homes could operate at current levels w/o AC. There are untold numbers of retired people who lacking oxygen and AC would simply not be able to continue living. AC was and remains a game changer, not merely in the South where humidity is high and temperatures soar in the Summer but in the increasingly crowded cities along the coastline going to the NE as well as of course out of the way places like Vegas, LA, etc., where the current lifestyle absent AC would be virtually unsustainable. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

Nobody disputes any of this, especially someone like me who not only grew up pre-AC, but suffered the heat at it's worst working outdoors; I'll sure as hell never forget leaving for work at 6 am in the summer, and turning on the AC as soon as I started my truck!

But does that make the pre-AC South the equivalent of today's Turd World???

[leftyo]

Nobody disputes any of this, especially someone like me who not only grew up pre-AC, but suffered the heat at it's worst working outdoors; I'll sure as hell never forget leaving for work at 6 am in the summer, and turning on the AC as soon as I started my truck!

But does that make the pre-AC South the equivalent of today's Turd World???

no it doesnt, not even close.