The future of NAFTA

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  • togor
    Banned
    • Nov 2009
    • 17610

    #16
    The difference steelap is that I bear Red no real emnity. It's just an internet discussion, after all. Yes, post 12 is more sauce than I like, and I can do better, but don't forget not so long ago I was wishing him a full recovery from a nasty flu virus with a pneumonia kicker. Red on the other hand has nothing unending hostility towards people he disagrees with, which usually means me, and doesn't care who sees it. I could be wrong, but my impression is that Red would choose to die a slow painful death before offering a kind word to someone on his "bad" list.

    Comment

    • leftyo

      #17
      Originally posted by steelap
      Oh, man! SysAd, I'm disappointed.

      When i saw you had posted to this thread I was sure that you were going to say you had banned togor for his language in Post 12 (don't edit it now, togor!).

      After all, RED was banned for ad hominem attacks....
      now i dont personally care for togor, but there is a huge difference between what he posted up above, and the nasty stuff red has been posting for years.

      Comment

      • Ken The Kanuck
        Very Senior Member - OFC
        • Aug 2009
        • 4094

        #18
        Originally posted by SysAd
        I hope he just walks away from NAFTA. The Pacific Northwest was full of thriving little lumber towns before NAFTA allowed Canadian lumber, subsidized by their government, to drive them out of business. My little town was busy place with seven mills when I moved here 25 years ago. Only one is left and supporting businesses have gone under too. The loss of tax base leaves streets full of potholes and a terrible water system. NAFTA was a horrible deal for the U.S. and dumping it would be good.
        I am not too sure what has caused the decline in the lumber industry. Up here there has been a similar loss of jobs in the lumber sector. I also do not know what subsidies the government has given, they have not been working. Our lumber industry has also gone down the toilet. What many up here point to is the fact that it is now allowed to export raw logs. I suspect that both our countries are suffering from shipping the raw logs overseas to cheap labour. Which is exactly why so many of us up here are opposed to NAFTA. We felt our jobs would go to the southern right to work states where labour is cheap. They did, then Mexico got into NAFTA and they kept going south.

        KTK

        Comment

        • S.A. Boggs
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 8568

          #19
          Originally posted by Ken The Kanuck
          I am not too sure what has caused the decline in the lumber industry. Up here there has been a similar loss of jobs in the lumber sector. I also do not know what subsidies the government has given, they have not been working. Our lumber industry has also gone down the toilet. What many up here point to is the fact that it is now allowed to export raw logs. I suspect that both our countries are suffering from shipping the raw logs overseas to cheap labour. Which is exactly why so many of us up here are opposed to NAFTA. We felt our jobs would go to the southern right to work states where labour is cheap. They did, then Mexico got into NAFTA and they kept going south.

          KTK
          Ken I am curious, what would you propose as Ross Perot would say, I am all ears!
          Sam

          Comment

          • Ken The Kanuck
            Very Senior Member - OFC
            • Aug 2009
            • 4094

            #20
            Hi Sam,

            Although I must admit my ignorance regarding international trade, I think the following.

            1) It maybe a good idea to have a common currency between our countries. If the rate of exchanges goes up 1% in a day this equated to 365% per year. It is only those who manipulate the currency market that profit. Wealth must be created and the currency traders create no wealth except for themselves. This would also make the issues more transparent and hopefully fairer.

            2) One thing I do know as a business man it that any deal which is not good for all parties is doomed to fail.

            3) Remove the trade issues from the politicians. It makes us feel good when our leaders take a hard line, this plays to our patriotism. Rah, Rah !!!!!!

            4) Have international trade issues dealt with by professionals in this field, not a bunch of politicians whose prime concern is and always will be in getting re-elected.

            5) Or the US could simply buy Canada, say for 10 millions for each citizen (in American dollars of course).

            KTK

            Comment

            • leftyo

              #21
              the common currency isnt panning out in europe, why the hell would anyone want it here!

              Comment

              • S.A. Boggs
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 8568

                #22
                Originally posted by Ken The Kanuck
                Hi Sam,

                Although I must admit my ignorance regarding international trade, I think the following.

                1) It maybe a good idea to have a common currency between our countries. If the rate of exchanges goes up 1% in a day this equated to 365% per year. It is only those who manipulate the currency market that profit. Wealth must be created and the currency traders create no wealth except for themselves. This would also make the issues more transparent and hopefully fairer.

                2) One thing I do know as a business man it that any deal which is not good for all parties is doomed to fail.

                3) Remove the trade issues from the politicians. It makes us feel good when our leaders take a hard line, this plays to our patriotism. Rah, Rah !!!!!!

                4) Have international trade issues dealt with by professionals in this field, not a bunch of politicians whose prime concern is and always will be in getting re-elected.

                5) Or the US could simply buy Canada, say for 10 millions for each citizen (in American dollars of course).

                KTK
                Ken, your country has enough problems just with the weather why saddle yourself with Nancy and Chuckie.
                Sam

                Comment

                • Roadkingtrax
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 7835

                  #23
                  Originally posted by leftyo
                  the common currency isnt panning out in europe, why the hell would anyone want it here!
                  Certainly isnt for those vacationing in Europe.
                  "The first gun that was fired at Fort Sumter sounded the death-knell of slavery. They who fired it were the greatest practical abolitionists this nation has produced." ~BG D. Ullman

                  Comment

                  • Ken The Kanuck
                    Very Senior Member - OFC
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 4094

                    #24
                    Originally posted by S.A. Boggs
                    Ken, your country has enough problems just with the weather why saddle yourself with Nancy and Chuckie.
                    Sam
                    I would never suggest that we combine our political systems, I like the Americans far too much to saddle them with our politicians.

                    KTK

                    Comment

                    • togor
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 17610

                      #25
                      Originally posted by leftyo
                      the common currency isnt panning out in europe, why the hell would anyone want it here!
                      I just spent some Euros. They seem to work well enough.

                      Comment

                      • Allen
                        Moderator
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 10583

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Ken The Kanuck
                        I would never suggest that we combine our political systems, I like the Americans far too much to saddle them with our politicians.

                        KTK
                        Until we got Trump we had nothing to offer either.

                        Comment

                        • Mark in Ottawa
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 1744

                          #27
                          I think that you might want to look at the data in this website https://www.thebalance.com/advantages-of-nafta-3306271

                          According to the website, between 1993-2015, trade between the three members quadrupled from $297 billion to $1.14 trillion, prices were reduced, and 5 million new jobs were created in the USA.

                          Comment

                          • S.A. Boggs
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 8568

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Mark in Ottawa
                            I think that you might want to look at the data in this website https://www.thebalance.com/advantages-of-nafta-3306271

                            According to the website, between 1993-2015, trade between the three members quadrupled from $297 billion to $1.14 trillion, prices were reduced, and 5 million new jobs were created in the USA.
                            Fast food doesn't count!
                            Sam

                            Comment

                            • JB White
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 13371

                              #29
                              All depends on who's doing the counting Sam.
                              COL increases are set by not counting taxes and other normal overhead expenses. Again, who's doing the counting?
                              2016 Chicago Cubs. MLB Champions!


                              **Never quite as old as the other old farts**

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