Army Field Manual 3-19-15 Civil Disturbance Operations

[m1ashooter]

With all the talk about employing US troops on the southern border and how active troops can't arrest etc., I asked myself what gave them the authority to put down the riots in the late 60's? So I started researching and found this field manual.

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf

It seems to me that it is not in violation of Posse Comitatus if the US Army is used to protect Federal Property. I would think that the border is considered US Federal Property. Posse Comitatus prohibits the US Army and USAF but its DOD policy to include the USMC and USN in the act. DOD policy is just policy its not law so it could be changed I would think.

Any thoughts on the material?

[leftyo]

havent read it etc, but been a long time back when i occasionally played shore patrol in the navy, we could not arrest a civilian, we could however legally detain them.

[bruce]

It is the past. Dead and gone. Probably for the best. Once upon a time the Army was ordered to destroy the tents/belongings of US veterans who were demanding the payment of their promised bonus ... which never got paid. Before that, the it was either the Army or the Nat. Guard that was used to break strikes, etc. All of that was done in a different era when a lot of things were done that were plain wrong. The Army has one function only ... war. Silly euphemisms like "defense operations, etc." do not change that basic fact. In recent administrations soldiers have been used to observe, etc. That may possibly be acceptable. But, the idea that soldiers are going to be deployed on the southern border to repel an invasion of illegal aliens is purely the stuff of Hollywood script writers ... and of course the dream of demokrat candidates looking longingly at the coming election cycle. That's just the way it is. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[togor]

But, the idea that soldiers are going to be deployed on the southern border to repel an invasion of illegal aliens is purely the stuff of Hollywood script writers ... and of course the dream of demokrat candidates looking longingly at the coming election cycle.

Might be one other person who dreams of that too.

[bruce]

Re: One other person. Yep! Always someone ready to talk foolishness when it comes soldiers marching off somewhere to do something. Just finished a bible study with some men. We call it "Locker Room Bible Study." Kind of communicates a lot with four little words. This morning the discussion got around to Vietnam. One of the men ... his father was a WWII/Korea veteran who came home really messed up. Lived in a bottle. Died to young. This man talked about his father and about his own experience during Vietnam. It was wrong the way those men were treated. No excuse for it at all. Just wrong. You don't use up men like that unless there is simply no other way to handle a situation. I am extremely cautious of people who are so quick to want to pull the trigger and send men off to fight ... people who very seldom if ever have any skin in the game, i.e., they have served, or they have immediate family who are on duty and subject to being put into the meat grinder. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[leftyo]

i dont think the talk is so foolish. if you dont think the president cant or wont put troops on the border, your sadly mistaken. unless your a real poor student of history, youll note that there have been more than a couple of times US troops have marched against US citizens(maybe not marched exactly), it would be foolhardy to think they can not be deployed to protect our own border from foreign invaders.

[clintonhater]

Odd--don't remember any HUGE uproar when Obama dispatched NG troops to the border. Suspect CNN reported it as quite right & proper.

[Vern Humphrey]

Re: One other person. Yep! Always someone ready to talk foolishness when it comes soldiers marching off somewhere to do something. Just finished a bible study with some men. We call it "Locker Room Bible Study." Kind of communicates a lot with four little words. This morning the discussion got around to Vietnam. One of the men ... his father was a WWII/Korea veteran who came home really messed up. Lived in a bottle. Died to young. This man talked about his father and about his own experience during Vietnam. It was wrong the way those men were treated. No excuse for it at all. Just wrong. You don't use up men like that unless there is simply no other way to handle a situation. I am extremely cautious of people who are so quick to want to pull the trigger and send men off to fight ... people who very seldom if ever have any skin in the game, i.e., they have served, or they have immediate family who are on duty and subject to being put into the meat grinder. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

There were people who thought it was fun to find a soldier's pregnant wife and try to make her cry by telling her they just heard her husband had been killed in Viet Nam.

The woman was my wife.

- - - Updated - - -

i dont think the talk is so foolish. if you dont think the president cant or wont put troops on the border, your sadly mistaken. unless your a real poor student of history, youll note that there have been more than a couple of times US troops have marched against US citizens(maybe not marched exactly), it would be foolhardy to think they can not be deployed to protect our own border from foreign invaders.

The Army used to protect the border -- the 10th Cavalry stationed at Fort Huachuca, Arizona was one of the regiments. In WWII, the "Buffalo Soldiers" (9th and 10th Cavalry) and other Black troops formed the 2nd Cavalry Division with the mission of patrolling and protecting the border.

That said, using troops to protect the border is a measure of desperation. They cease to be soldiers and don't become Border Patrol, either.

[JB White]

They cease to be soldiers and don't become Border Patrol, either.

No, and it's actually quite convenient for them. Not allowed to arrest but can detain. Meaning they can notify civilian authorities and have them become the 'arresting officer' on paper. This way soldiers aren't likely to be summoned to appear in a year-long, civilian 3 ring circus of continuances. So long as there are no "amnesty-minded" types getting their 2d in the way all the time, it works.

Obama sent a token number of troops to the border as did Bush. Who as I recall sent a rather fair amount. It's temporary and our MSM isn't shy about hinting that over the border. "Patience. They'll go away" is the real message. I recall hearing the BP had to constantly train new arrivals because they rotated on/off the border so often. Hopefully they've worked that out by now.

[bruce]

There were people who thought it was fun to find a soldier's pregnant wife and try to make her cry by telling her they just heard her husband had been killed in Viet Nam. The woman was my wife.

Well aware of that sort of stupid stuff. You both have my respect. Just finished a book entitled "Hero Mama." Really stupid things are still being said to servicemen/women returning ... that they were fools to fight for oil companies, etc., etc., etc. Sincerely. bruce.

[bruce]

Re: With respect, foolish talk is foolish talk. True Trump can and likely will put NG's on the border. They'll watch and observe and report. Very much doubt they'll have even a B.B. gun within reach. But, it'll play well with some press... and provide grist for the grinder of other press. Well aware that various presidents have used US armed forces domestically. The "Whiskey Rebellion" is one good example. The Bonus March is a glaring example of precisely the same thing. It is not possible to rationally classify what is currently being discussed as protecting our border from foreign invaders. It is what it is. No different than when illegal aliens came into this country before WWII and following to work the fields, etc. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[Fred]

This mobilization of our borders is not to just prevent some illegal people from entering. The primary reasons aren't known to me. Nor to anyone else I know.
These other reasons are probably complex and classified.
I'm just going to keep watching and see what happens.

[sid]

President Roosevelt sent a division of Army troops to Philadelphia during World War II. The white workers at the local transportation company went on strike because they didn't want any black bus drivers or trolley conductors. The black community was threatening to riot and the troops were sent to prevent it. There was a soldier on every bus and trolley car and each one carried a loaded M! carbine. I was just about 13 years old back then and enjoyed talking to them. My parents and other people in our neighborhood invited several to dinner so they could at least enjoy a home cooked meal.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Authority 10 U.S.C. 15 - ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS TO RESTORE PUBLIC ORDER

Taken from "The Blotter" USMC Publication Headquarters U.S. Marine Corps Law Enforcement Division, September 1992.

MILITARY POLICE IN CIVIL DISTURBANCE OPERATIONS
During the recent Los Angeles riots, captain John Forquer,
Commanding Officer of MP Company, 1st Marine Division, Camp
Pendleton, California, was sent north with his company of MP's to
help restore law and order by securing several key positions within
the Los Angeles community of Compton, one of the hardest hit areas
during the rioting. despite some drive-by shooting episodes by
gang members and threats of retribution, the MP's quickly secured
their obj ecti ves, restoring order to the area. Equally as
important, the presence of the Marines restored the confidence of
the area residents. The deployment to L.A. clearly demonstrated
the capabilities of MP's in civil disturbance scenarios.

************************************************** ************************************************** ***********************

Taken from GlobalSecurity.org

Operation Garden Plot
JTF-LA Joint Task Force Los Angeles (Los Angeles Riots 29 April, 1992)

As the fires spread across Los Angeles beginning in the late afternoon of Apri1 29, 1992, unprecedented demands were placed on the Los Angeles City Fire Department, in particular, because it was forced to respond to calls for assistance while confronted at times by hostile individuals and crowds armed with assorted weapons. The fire fighters were severely hampered by the response time and level of escort support which the Los Angeles Police Department was able to muster.

Both the state and federal governments responded quickly to the crisis. The governor of California committed the state police and two thousand National Guard soldiers to assist in restoring law and order on 30 April. At 2230 on 29 April 1992, as part of the response to this disorder, the 3d Battalion, 160th Infantry (Mechanized), 40th Infantry Division, California National Guard, was ordered to mobilize. CANG's initial response was slow and somewhat disorganized. Its troops did not arrive in the streets until 17 hours after Wilson's order or not until the evening of April 30. Between 2100 and 2400 the following day, all 3d Battalion companies deployed to their assigned areas. It was the first tactical battalion to be mobilized, the first to deploy to the streets of LA, and the last to redeploy. By the early morning of 30 April, the Governor of California had ordered state police and about 2,000 guardsmen into the area to restore order. The first of the National Guard units, the 670th Military Police Company, traveled almost 300 miles from its main armory and arrived the same afternoon to assist local police.

Lacking proper warning by LAPD, CANG loaned out to local agencies key items of riot control equipment such as face shields, riot batons and lock plates for their M-16 rifles. Logistics failures included ammunition shortages and transportation and communications snafus. Training was inadequate and predicated on the mistaken belief that the troops would face only a riot and not "low-intensity conflict (or urban warfare)" Training before and during the crisis was based on out of date "crowd control" techniques prescribed in the 1985 Army Field Manual 19-15, Civil Disturbances. Absolutely no one, civilian or military, expected a situation where the National Guard would be needed on the streets in a matter of hours.

The federal response was timely. SecDef Richard Cheney put 4,000 Army and Marine troops on alert on 30 April 1992. President Bush invoked the Insurrection Act via Executive Order 12804 [not Executive Order 6427] of 1 May 1992, federalizing elements of the California National Guard and authorizing active military forces from the Army and Marine Corps to help restore law and order. Following this Presidential Executive Order on 1 May, JTF-LA was formed. The Executive Order federalized unit of the California Army National Guard (CAARNG) and authorized active military forces to assist in the restoration of law and order. JTF-LA formed and deployed within 24 hours. It operated in a unique domestic disturbance environment while working with city, county, state, federal agencies, and the CAARNG. JTF-LA was completely successful in meeting the three objectives defined in its mission statement, which were-assume command and control of federalized National Guard and AC Marine and Army forces, establish liaison with local law enforcement agencies; and conduct civil disturbance operations to restore order in the greater LA area.

As DOD's executive agent for the crisis, the Secretary of the Army activated a civil disturbance plan, called GARDEN PLOT, to help orchestrate the callup and deployment of the military forces. Joint Task Force Los ANGELES consisted of about 10,000 guardsmen, nearly 1,500 marines from Camp Pendleton, and 2,000 soldiers from the 2d Brigade, 7th Infantry Division (Light), at Fort Ord. Virtually the entire 40th Infantry Division was mobilized. The military personnel were supposed to protect specific areas of the city, patrol neighborhoods after the police had restored order, and protect the fire fighters who were being attacked by mobs. Army troops showed restraint and discipline in handling a touchy situation. During the riots, they worked in areas of the city without electricity, where many buildings had been destroyed by fires, and resolved several potentially dangerous confrontations. The military would also provide some logistical support and supply riot gear, helicopters, tentage, and Meals, Ready-to-Eat (MRE). DOD estimated the final cost of the operation at about $15 million. A full complement of intelligence analysts was required to support the assault command post (ACP) during Operation Garden Plot. Law enforcement agencies generally have adequate data collection capabilities, but lack the ability to perform detailed intelligence analysis. Considerations for the G2 (S2) in an operation such as Garden Plot may include points similar to the following:

In Operation Garden Plot, military forces established intelligence exchange with suburban police departments, local city command post, the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD), the LAPD emergency operations center, the city command center, the sheriffs office, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Close and effective liaison must be established with all potential sources and agencies. Local law enforcement agencies have access to HUMINT, often unavailable to the military. The intelligence staff of the law enforcement agencies have unparalleled expertise in civil disturbances and gang behavior, while military analysts are in the best position to apply this experience to civil-military operations. During Operation Garden Plot, units used a variety of government-owned, off-the-shelf purchased, and personally owned equipment to effectively conduct operations. Additional communications equipment included such things as cellular phones, faxsimile machines, and police scanners.

For many days after, it was impossible for people living in South Central and Koreatown to purchase the minimum necessities. The city's mayor lifted the curfew on 4 May, and troops departed Los Angeles by 6 May.

[bruce]

Re: Authority/Garden Plot. This isn't 1992 with riots, fires, etc., etc. It isn't anything remotely close to it. If and when there are movements of foreign military forces to attack our nation, then it will be appropriate to deploy our nations servicemen in force to defend our borders. Until then, any need for police, etc. is purely a civil matter to be attended by the appropriate local, state and federal authorities. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.