Bush Family again attacks Trump.

[S.A. Boggs]

Togor, I respect your business is your own and you answered my question as well. I am also pleased that you finally respect that we are a Republic and not the anti-American Democracy. Does a non-citizen have the legal right to a government paid legal counsel or is this reserved to a citizen? IMHO if caught illegally finger print/photograph and return to the border for them to walk back to Mexico. If caught again, prosecute them as one would do any citizen including American Criminals, why give special status? BUILD THE WALL to retard people from crossing the border illegally will help, prosecute those who aid and abet illegal intrusion.
If a person want to come to America to work make a way for this to happen, not to let greedy people exploit them. If field workers are needed provide adequate approved housing, pay them a decent wage with appropriate taxes paid as a guest worker. If the guest worker wants to stay, provide a pathway for them. There are too many instances of these people being exploited for financial gain and the foreign workers being cruelly exploited this has to stop! If a technical worker wants to come to America, can the business prove that they cannot find Americans to fill the job. Foreign workers if employed must be paid the same wage and benefits that a Citizen would be given, same taxes paid. Any company caught exploiting a foreign national will do a stint in club fed and pay a generous fine that can reimburse the foreign worker for this financial crime.
It is time to get real with our national security and do something positive without giving away the store.
Sam

[RED]

Come on Sam, give it up. You are arguing with a computer algorithm (read that Al-Gore-rhythm) located on a server in the basement bathroom in the Clinton mansion in New York. Even if this were a real person, his anti American hatred and despicable lies make Chicago's favorite clown, John Wayne Gacy, Jr., look like a patriotic saint.

[togor]

Weak stuff Red. Looks like you need to get your mojo back. A trip to town where you can berate waitresses over the coffee and yell at little kids for laughing too much should round you back into form. With any luck some unsuspecting puppy will be within reach.

[S.A. Boggs]

Weak stuff Red. Looks like you need to get your mojo back. A trip to town where you can berate waitresses over the coffee and yell at little kids for laughing too much should round you back into form. With any luck some unsuspecting puppy will be within reach.

Togor, relax or you will blow a circuit board! Apparently Red is just pulling your chain.
Sam

[togor]

And I'm pulling his. Believe me, the job politics are far nastier than the friendly chats we have on this board.

[clintonhater]

They go back, and we keep them together while working the transfer.

Who says they go back? Most disappear into the vast underground support system that left wing US citizens have set up for them, which includes unlimited free legal services. Only much later, if at all, are they caught in an ICE raid, traffic stop, etc.

And they AIN'T all "little kids"! Many are teen-agers.

[Roadkingtrax]

Are the kids going to build the wall with Mexico's money?

What a sh*tshow this admin is.

[togor]

To add another wrinkle....

How much is it worth spending to drive the sneak-in rate to zero? $5B/year + $20B construction? Ten times that? Fifty?

We can divert vast sums to the border to pay guys to stand around looking through binoculars, but at some point the cure is worse than the disease, because another dollar spent at the border doesn't save you close to $1 in social services elsewhere.

Think Credit Card fraud. The card companies put in as much anti-fraud protection as they can, up until it cost them more than $1 in legitmate revenue for every $1 saved from fraud. They tolerate fraud at some non-zero level, even as it is a real headache for the consumer whose card gets hijacked, because their system is most profitable that way.

[clintonhater]

To add another wrinkle....

How much is it worth spending to drive the sneak-in rate to zero?

Whatever it costs...and it will be a pittance compared to the cost of Bush's wars. The less surplus there is to spend on foreign aid the better.

[togor]

Surplus?

[S.A. Boggs]

To add another wrinkle....

How much is it worth spending to drive the sneak-in rate to zero? $5B/year + $20B construction? Ten times that? Fifty?

We can divert vast sums to the border to pay guys to stand around looking through binoculars, but at some point the cure is worse than the disease, because another dollar spent at the border doesn't save you close to $1 in social services elsewhere.

Think Credit Card fraud. The card companies put in as much anti-fraud protection as they can, up until it cost them more than $1 in legitmate revenue for every $1 saved from fraud. They tolerate fraud at some non-zero level, even as it is a real headache for the consumer whose card gets hijacked, because their system is most profitable that way.

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE! How about a bounty of say $1,000 per person?
Sam

[Sandpebble]

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE! How about a bounty of say $1,000 per person?
Sam

You'd feel pretty silly being found at the border with a sombrero, fake mustache.... and half your head gone .

[S.A. Boggs]

You'd feel pretty silly being found at the border with a sombrero, fake mustache.... and half your head gone .

Are you honestly believing that I was serious in my comment? Geesh, some people!
Sam

[bruce]

Re: Children/illegal aliens/criminals, etc. I learned to say the pledge of allegiance in first grade. We started each day with the pledge. We then said the Lord's Prayer together. This many years later, I maintain my commitment to the nation. My commitment to Christ comes first. That necessitates some conflict. What my faith in Christ requires of me brings me into conflict with decisions not based in the teachings/ethic of Christ.

In this case, the left makes much over what is truly an outrage. They did not make much of it when the previous administration did the same thing. Of course, the previous administration did not do it on this scale. Regardless, the left makes much of it at present. It is a outrage. Meantime Republicans/Conservatives seek to make this outrage acceptable by cloaking it in Scripture misapplied ... or by seeking to blame the left, etc. for what is now a easily anticipated PR mess that could have been avoided ... thereby not giving the left a brick to throw through Republican windows.

Children in families who are members of churches I have served have been taken from their parents. I sat on a couch with a little six year old girl while her parents were being arrested for having about a 1/2 gallon bag of marijuana under the trash can. The parents tried to say the little girl brought it into the house. Guess they figured she wouldn't face any real repercussions. I don't know. I do know that that little girl went through seven kinds of hell as a result of her parents being arrested, etc. I cannot see that it would be any different for the children of parents arrested for being illegal aliens.

So ... who is to blame? Who is at fault? The parents. It is that simple. Ultimately, they are to blame. But, to stop there is to be dishonest. Like it or not, how the children are handled when they are taken from the parents is entirely the fault of and responsibility of we the people. It's on us. I've been in private psychiatric facilities for children. It's tough. I can't imagine it's better in a public, govt. run facility. The children of illegal aliens are being subjected to confinement that is of course entirely due to the parents actions. Nevertheless, the children are at the sharp end of a stick being pushed by Republicans/Conservatives whose concern is to use these illegal aliens as a political tool in the upcoming election cycle. That's just how it is. I write this sitting in a house in a new development where I can look out the window and see lots of men working. Almost without exception, these high end houses are being built by crews of men who ... as far as I can see ... are from south of the border. I do wonder if they are legal immigrants. Why would a company hire an illegal alien? Is it cheaper? Probably. Got to wonder if those illegal aliens would be so hot to trot up to the USA if companies refused to hire them b/c they were afraid of facing extreme ruinous financial and legal penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Fault? A whole lot of it rest entirely with those who hire the illegal aliens, those who fail to write legislation that would hold such companies and individuals accountable in a manner sufficiently extreme that they would be afraid to hire illegal aliens.

I keep thinking about that little six year old girl. She was holding a stuffed animal sitting on the couch. I sat with her. She cried b/c she was upset. The criminals being arrested were her mother and father. Perhaps not first class Ozzie and Harriet material, but they were the only parents she had. Later a nice lady from the sheriff dept. came. The little girl went with her. Happily the mother was very quickly run through the court system. She ended up with probation. The father got two years in a state prison. The little girl ... she was returned to her mother. It didn't take long. Sincerely. bruce.

[clintonhater]

I write this sitting in a house in a new development where I can look out the window and see lots of men working. Almost without exception, these high end houses are being built by crews of men who ... as far as I can see ... are from south of the border. I do wonder if they are legal immigrants.

HA!