Social Security

[Vern Humphrey]

To put this back on track, how many people say they have no (or very little) savings because the "can't save?"

I point out they can -- and do -- save. And they save quite a bit, 15.3% of their income, off the top. But the government takes it and squanders it. And I gave a real-world illustration how by saving a similar amount for a mere 10 years, I vastly exceeded what the government achieved with both my and my wife's Social Security for our entire working lives.

This is what happens when Regressives decide they know better than you what's for your own good.

[JB White]

It's all relative to the individual cost of living versus actual income. Add in one or two of life's disasters. There is no savings when fate shoves someone behind the eight ball.
That 15.3% off the top of the paycheck goes where bill collectors cannot get their hands on it. My contributions went towards those ahead of me. Now those behind me are helping me. For now the system is working. Barely working due to mismanagement, but it's better than nothing. Unlike welfare, those who collect Social Security retirement benefits receive those benefits on a scale in accordance to what they paid into it previously.

I cannot fathom how some are unable to comprehend how nigh impossible it is to save when people are forced to live hand-to-hand/paycheck-to-paycheck. Just as soon as they're feeling like the family deserve a break, the baby gets sick, junior breaks and arm, the wife needs surgery, the garage catches fire, someone dies, the car gets hit.....and you think they are still able to put 15% away? Even those who are raised on "pay yourself first" are lucky if they can sock away $10 to $20 all the time. It just doesn't happen. Especially today with blue collar wages suppressed via a saturated employee base and a lack of 40 hour a week jobs so the employers can dodge the Obamacare taxes.

[Vern Humphrey]

That 15.3% off the top of the paycheck goes where bill collectors cannot get their hands on it. My contributions went towards those ahead of me. Now those behind me are helping me. For now the system is working. Barely working due to mismanagement, but it's better than nothing.

But NOT better than saving and investing your OWN money.

I cannot fathom how some are unable to comprehend how nigh impossible it is to save when people are forced to live hand-to-hand/paycheck-to-paycheck. Just as soon as they're feeling like the family deserve a break, the baby gets sick, junior breaks and arm, the wife needs surgery, the garage catches fire, someone dies, the car gets hit.....and you think they are still able to put 15% away?

YES! And the proof is, regardless of the baby getting sick, junior breaking his arm, the wife needing surgery or the garage catching fire, the government STILL takes that 15.3%!

Even those who are raised on "pay yourself first" are lucky if they can sock away $10 to $20 all the time. It just doesn't happen. Especially today with blue collar wages suppressed via a saturated employee base and a lack of 40 hour a week jobs so the employers can dodge the Obamacare taxes.

If you sock away what you can, you will rise above the point where a single calamity -- or twenty -- will wipe you out. The fact of the matter is, they CAN save -- at least 15.3% of their income. The problem is, the government takes it and squanders it.

[togor]

Vern the government put the payroll withholding effectively into government bonds. A low rate of return but safe principal. Playing the market would have the obvious problem of distorting that market plus a risk of principal loss in a market crash. So bonds are effectively the only choice.

We got SS because people weren't socking away enough for old age, even when lives were shorter. They're sure as heck not going to now if you make the program optional.

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't feed trolls.

[togor]

I don't feed trolls.

Actually you do. Your arguments are easily chewed. Not very nutritious, however. Mostly starch.

The basis of your reasoning on Social Security is "If everyone thought like me, then...". Well they don't, and glory be for that, otherwise the price for Ozark land might be beyond reach!! So there's your bright side.