Gun control again?

[Allen]

Bear in mind that Norway, a gold standard Of gun control, still holds the record for most killed in a mass shooting. So it would appear that gun control in itself is not the solution, and at any rate does not solve the root problem, whatever that may be.

Fear not. You can always go to Europe and get shot or knifed by an assassin. Thank God all those badass citizens are defenseless and you don't have to worry about them.

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No Expert on Anything. It just seems too pat that these displays of firearms atrocities happen at convenient times, politically. Can it be these murderers have been preprogrammed
to emerge when the time is opportune. All the killers are or were on someones radar, and had mental difficulties that could have been exploited. I just am suspicious of everything.
Call me paranoid, but just look at the last month or so. Caravans, synagogue. slaughter, unexploded bombs to left wing people and celebrities. Seems fishy,

Yep. No telling how much of all of this is staged.

[Jiminvirginia]

I suspect Togor that the draconian gun laws would eventually lead to fewer gun deaths. Makes sense. But without finding and fixing root problems the mode of murder would be replaced with something else. Remember the McVeigh bombing. And BTW, 12 shot and killed? Routine weekend in Chicago.

[Vern Humphrey]

My, My Togor you sure seem "angrier" then usual today! Do you have a therapist or just your self medicating?
Sam

Yeah, he's going around the bend. Note that the United States Army Artillery Center and School credit Milton Wylie Humphrey with being the first to use indirect fire with field artillery, and there is a bronze plaque to him in Snow Hall.

This is typical narcissistic behavior -- he arrogates to himself the power to decide technical issues (and gets it all wrong, of course) then demands everyone else accept his definitions and pronouncements.

[Sandpebble]

Someone tell me again why this country is still sending troops to Afghanistan and creating new generations of damaged losers?

Because stock holders need to be paid dividends to enoy a comfortable retired life ..... stock in Haliburton .. Brown & Root ... Martin Marietta ... all brought dividends to those pleased to benefit a war.

Mr. T himself has just recently somewhat admitted that a Billion dollar arms deal to Saudi Arabia could color his thoughts on the Khashoggi murder ...

but hey , ....human life is one thing be it ours or theirs ... but profit on arms manufacturing is far more important .......

ask any of the 50,000 + American Mothers of Vietnam dead ..... and don't stop there .

[Vern Humphrey]

I suspect Togor that the draconian gun laws would eventually lead to fewer gun deaths. Makes sense. But without finding and fixing root problems the mode of murder would be replaced with something else. Remember the McVeigh bombing. And BTW, 12 shot and killed? Routine weekend in Chicago.

I might also point out there is a parallel with gun control and the Murragh Building bombing in Oklahoma City. Johnnie Cochran made an impassioned speech about how he was going to sue fertilizer companies and force them to change their fertilizer so it couldn't be used to make explosives. He never did that, of course, and despite the fact that high nitrogen fertilizer can be bought in any feed store in the country, no more bombs have been made from it.

That tells us it isn't the fertilizer (or the gun) that causes the crime.

[Allen]

Remember the McVeigh bombing

I remember it well. I also remember the ready made speech bill clinton delivered first thing the next morning on gun control. No guns were used. Staged????

[togor]

The thing we all understand about firearms is their lethality. True a machete never runs out of bullets but what is the effective range of a machete and how many lethal strokes per minute can it deliver, and how does that compare to trigger pulls on a Glock or AR with deep mags. And a single Oklahoma City incident forever changed the way ammonium nitrate is sold. None of us wants a clampdown but that shouldn't stop us from acknowledging certain realities.

[blackhawknj]

Likewise I don't recall too many politicians addressing the problem of AIDS, demanding that those responsible for spreading it change their behavior, and hinting that some corrective legislation was in order.
"We fight, get beat, rise up and fight again."

[Vern Humphrey]

Likewise I don't recall too many politicians addressing the problem of AIDS, demanding that those responsible for spreading it change their behavior, and hinting that some corrective legislation was in order.
"We fight, get beat, rise up and fight again."

Of course not. There is a picture in a museum in Hampton, VA, showing armed men patrolling the city limits during an outbreak of Yellow Fever in the early 20th Century. The city was under quarantine and no one could get out until the fever burned itself out. But we can't do that nowadays.

[togor]

Likewise I don't recall too many politicians addressing the problem of AIDS, demanding that those responsible for spreading it change their behavior, and hinting that some corrective legislation was in order.
"We fight, get beat, rise up and fight again."

Why would you have been plugged into that?

[JohnPeeff]

As I remember 700,000-800,000 were killed in Rwanda by machetes . At the beginning of the Algerian war of Independence Frenchmen had their throats slit with can lids. "where there is will there is a way"

[togor]

...and sometimes the way is shut. Just ask Hillary, or half the sports teams playing on any given day.

[bostonbound]

...and sometimes the way is shut. Just ask Hillary, or half the sports teams playing on any given day.

Please elucidate. You are being far more obtuse than usual. Usually your comments are much easier to understand, even if not to agree with.

[m1ashooter]

I'm not a mental health expert but I do sometimes think I have a huge amount of common sense and an understanding of history. The problem isn't about the access of firearms and the need for more gun control laws, although some claim it is. Prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act we had millions of combat veterans from WW2, Korea and Vietnam in our population and you could buy military surplus small arms through mail order with out a background check. I'd say its fair to say a portion of that population suffered from PTSD. Yet these men did not go into schools, bars etc and shoot them up. We also had at the time state psychiatric hospitals to deal with the problems of mental health. Over time many have been shut down due to budget issues and some were just horrible places to be. So what is different today then then.

We have many different gun laws on the books. Do these laws stop the people from mass shootings? No they don't. So tell me why these things happen. At the beginning of this thread it was stated that one of the reasons could be the lack of mental health programs available for those in need. I say that is the path we should be taking. What are the drugs that these shooters are on? What are the side effects of these drugs. One of the reasons the state hospitals were closed was the advancements of drugs to treat mental health issues are these drugs the problem's. Everyday veterans kill themselves, are the drugs they have been prescribed the reason?

The 1968 Gun Control Act was the political solution to the murder of JFK by Oswald using a surplus piece of crap Italian surplus rifle. By the way I don't think he did it. Why not a M1 Grand, or a 1903 Springfield or an M1 Carbine? Then Bobby was shot by an Arab with a handgun. Doctor King is said to have been murdered by a career criminal with a commercial hunting rifle. So why all the new gun laws.


Then we start treating everyone with a potential mental health issue with drugs. One of my neighbors kids was being treated for depression and given a drug that has potential side effects of suicide thoughts. Well he went out into the woods one night and shot himself in the head and by the grace of God lived. So again I come back to the issue of mental health and the treatment or lack of treatment for our population.

In my opinion the path to solving our mass shooting issue is a mental health one and not more gun control. Gun laws are a cheap solution but will not solve the real issue.

[Vern Humphrey]

But as you said, the drugs can themselves lead to aberrant behavior. And frankly, there is no proof that mental illness is the cause of violence. There is, however strong evidence that culture is linked to violence - witness all the inner city shootings.