My friend Bueford Cooper

[rayg]

Okay, my maybe my post caused some confusion for some. So will correct it to, "I did NOT say that", Ray

[togor]

togor has USA guilt
he believes FDR was a great man, with a great plan,

that plan worked, at first, but like most plans, did not do so well as it aged,

however , instead of placing the blame on the establishment that caused the failures, and again, having USA Guilt, (kinda like white guilt,, ) he blames all on Trump,


everything,


surely the UN is a great organization (that's sarcasm) and has the new world order planned out

Trump, has another agenda,, that togor disapproves of,

yet he (togor) claims he is a conservative,,,,,,,

Lay off the straw men and personal attacks.

[togor]

Where did I say that?

Ray, the point is that FDR and Trump had two very different conceptions of America's role in the world. It's hard to imagine Trump conceiving of the Atlantic Charter, or delineating the Four Freedoms, or coining the phrase "United Nations" much less dedicating his last ounces of strength to the creation of the institution. Trump isn't wired that way and it should stir no controversy to point that out.

But as you say, 80 years is a long time ago. So if we go back 40, we have Reagan, who lived in FDR's time and who himself strongly embraced FDR's notion as the American President being the leader of the Free World.

Is "Leader of the Free World" a relevant role today? It depends on who you ask I suppose. There are still some pretty vile dictatorships out there.

[rayg]

Well FDR had plenty of time to do his things as he was pres for 12 years, Trump only three yrs and in that short time he has accomplished a lot for the country already.

[lyman]

Lay off the straw men and personal attacks.

no straw man at all,

and not an attack, truth from your previous posts,

[togor]

Well FDR had plenty of time to do his things as he was pres for 12 years, Trump only three yrs and in that short time he has accomplished a lot for the country already.

Length of time in office really isn't the point is it? The two are wired differently and lead the country in different ways, putting aside obvious differences in policy. Give Trump 9 more years and he won't spend it reinforcing the vision of either FDR or Reagan when it comes to foreign policy.

[rayg]

Length of time in office really isn't the point is it? The two are wired differently and lead the country in different ways, putting aside obvious differences in policy. Give Trump 9 more years and he won't spend it reinforcing the vision of either FDR or Reagan when it comes to foreign policy.

Wasn't their vision a strong industrial and military America? If so, isn't that what Trump is providing?

[togor]

Wasn't their vision a strong industrial and military America? If so, isn't that what Trump is providing?

Trump is pushing against Chinese economic hegemony without a doubt, and this is something that neither Reagan or FDR had to contend with. The 5G issue right now is interesting as Trump doesn't want the Chinese building our next gen infrastructure, so someone else is going to have to do it.

But to my eyes Trump's vision is more about wealth than it is anything else. Whereas in the past, friendship with America was marked by shared values, in the current administration it's marked more by a country's ability to make America materially richer.

[rayg]

in the current administration it's marked more by a country's ability to make America materially richer.

And which everyone in the country will benefit

[S.A. Boggs]

togor has USA guilt
he believes FDR was a great man, with a great plan,

that plan worked, at first, but like most plans, did not do so well as it aged,

however , instead of placing the blame on the establishment that caused the failures, and again, having USA Guilt, (kinda like white guilt,, ) he blames all on Trump,


everything,


surely the UN is a great organization (that's sarcasm) and has the new world order planned out

Trump, has another agenda,, that togor disapproves of,

yet he (togor) claims he is a conservative,,,,,,,

The best part is that Trump continues to WIN and tear down that which the National Socialists find dear to them. Trump will win 4 more years and hopefully less Democrats to oppose the will of the Republic.
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

no straw man at all,

and not an attack, truth from your previous posts,

"Straw man?" I love it!

For the benefit of all, a "straw man" is an argument designed to be refuted, and advanced by an opponent, who attributes it to you. He claims victory when he knocks down his own argument.

[togor]

And which everyone in the country will benefit

Too soon to tell. Lots of IOUs fueling the current party. And the money is flowing primarily to those who already have plenty. Other thing about money is....what do you give up in exchange for it.

- - - Updated - - -

"Straw man?" I love it!

For the benefit of all, a "straw man" is an argument designed to be refuted, and advanced by an opponent, who attributes it to you. He claims victory when he knocks down his own argument.

Congratulations on knowing that.

[rayg]

Ray..."And which everyone in the country will benefit".

Togor....Lots of IOUs fueling the current party..
Ray...As well as the other party.
Togor....And the money is flowing primarily to those who already have plenty.
Ray... Always does...
Togor....Other thing about money is....what do you give up in exchange for it.
Ray... Some people their souls

[togor]

Hi Ray,

100% agree that some people sell too much for wealth.

As for where the new wealth goes...there was the big tax cut in 2017, that the GOP chose not to run on in 2018. There may be a message in that. Here is a chart showing how income percentiles have tracked year over year from an interesting web site.

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/

[rayg]

There's always going to be a top 1%
The more successful the countries business and manufacturing, the more money is made and those who invest in that success, make money.