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Trump is being impeached for trying to squeeze a foreign government to provide dirt on a domestic political rival, by misusing a Congressional appropriation for private political purposes. That's the charge. If you cannot see on your own how they came to it (whether you agree or not), then nothing I say can help. Maybe you can get the cell number of Lev Parnas.Comment
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I do not see the impeachment as a benefit for the Democrats, just a millstone around their neck. Bernie is coming on strong and that worries a great many in their party. Our economy is great and now with the passing of the trade acts it can only improve. People will vote their wallet, one just has to see the outpour of support @ the President's rallies. Locally the only ones who still believe in the Democratic Party are Socialists or "Hillary really won" people. President Trump could find a cure for cancer and the Democrats would ask what will he charge for this.
Democracy in America is dying and the Republic is on a role. The Democrats have no substance and the only platform is to give away freebies and raise taxes.
SamComment
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Trump is being impeached for having the political style of Don Rickles; because he's rude, crude and obnoxious. He's also being impeached because he truly is an outsider who won against an insider and isn't playing the game. Additionally he's being impeached because he is looking more and more like he will win the next election. Trump hadn't even been sworn in before Democrats started looking for a way to impeach him in fact orders of impeachment were submitted practically before the inaugural ball venues had been cleaned up. Al Green, D. Tex. put it all in a nutshell when asked why it was so important to impeach Trump. Green said "because he could get re elected.
Parnas (this year's Michael Avenatti) is under indictment for campaign finance abuses. That alone doesn't impeach him as a witness but the fact that he is a proven liar does. Parnas made the provable lie that Devin Nunez met with a Ukrainian prosecutor in Prague when Nunez was able to show conclusively that he had never been in the Czech Republic. Nunez is suing the organizations who carried that lie, particularly The Daily Beast for liable. I figure, even with the latitude the press has regarding public people, he'll probably win.
I will guarantee that if this impeachment fails, which it almost surely will, and the Democrats retain the House of Representatives he will be impeached and again without any Republican votes and some defections from the Democrat side.
Bill Clinton was really impeached because his enemies decided he was unfit for office; it is also why Donald Trump is being impeached. Being unfit for office isn't an impeachable offense. Decisions on fitness for office are supposed to be decided in elections.Last edited by Art; 01-17-2020, 04:35.Comment
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Bill clinton was impeached due to an impeachable crime.
The Ukraine got their (our) money and within the due date. Trump merely asked them to investigate corruption within their country caused by an American, a law signed by bill clinton during the clinton infestation. Other things may come about the next few days but I feel the democrats have presented everything they have, which is nothing.
Trump asking the Ukrainian president to investigate American corruption in their country is as unlawful as a mail carrier putting mail in your mail box.Comment
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Gun Smoke
That Bill Clinton's crime was an impeachable offense is highly debatable. I don't think it was but that's just my opinion.Last edited by Art; 01-17-2020, 05:10.Comment
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Gun Smoke wildly distorts the facts of what transpired in Ukraine, and has no explanation at all for whatever the h*ll Giuliani and his cronies were doing over there on Trump's behalf. But no one else here who supports Trump is even willing to come that close to engaging with the facts, so I suppose GS gets a tiny bit of credit.Comment
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It is, but the Constitution does not specify just any serious crime it specifies a crime that rises to the level of treason as defined in the constitution or, in my opinion, systemic bribery as in the Hastings case. What Clinton lied about had nothing to do with his conduct as president except trying to avoid personal and political embarrassment. The Articles of Impeachment against Trump don't even allege a crime.
We are on a slippery slope of trying to remove presidents we don't like without an election. In the first 180 years since the adoption of the Constitution we had one impeachment. In the last 44 years we've had three (I'm counting Nixon) and every president since Ford has had a formal bill of impeachment filed against him, though it didn't get anywhere against the Bushs and Obama.Last edited by Art; 01-17-2020, 07:14.Comment
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Re-read it. Note the word "Misdemeanor." A misdemeanor is an offense not serious enough to be considered a crime, like jaywalking or spitting on the street.
We probably need a constitutional amendment to define what is an impeachable offense. This would make a good model
Article III, Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
As you can see, the definition of treason is closely circumscribed and the standard of proof is spelled out.Comment
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