Only one thing could hurt Trump's re-election ...

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  • blackhawknj
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 3754

    #16
    I distinguish between benefiting from things everybody contributes to and hence has a right of access to-roads, parks, public transport, etc.,-and handouts-income transfers, welfare, etc.

    Comment

    • Roadkingtrax
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 7835

      #17
      Originally posted by togor
      The government subsidized agriculture, but doesn't take ownership of the farms. Private sector companies will subsidize money losing divisions with profits from other operations in pursuit of a strategic goal. The US road system is largely socialized and subsidized by taxpayer revenue, with toll roads like I90 east of Chicago being government owned through the toll road authority but supported by user fees as opposed to general revenue. And of course there is the military.
      Big Ag has received bailouts that double the auto/GM bailouts that caused such consternation.
      Last edited by Roadkingtrax; 01-26-2020, 02:08.
      "The first gun that was fired at Fort Sumter sounded the death-knell of slavery. They who fired it were the greatest practical abolitionists this nation has produced." ~BG D. Ullman

      Comment

      • togor
        Banned
        • Nov 2009
        • 17610

        #18
        Originally posted by blackhawknj
        I distinguish between benefiting from things everybody contributes to and hence has a right of access to-roads, parks, public transport, etc.,-and handouts-income transfers, welfare, etc.
        It's an interesting distinction but not without it's own wrinkles. Tax forms are a common means of administering direct subsidies over a large number of people. Take the child credit. Now I know there are people who say that because a tax form is used somehow it isn't a subsidy, but this is magical thinking and bad math. Forms used for taxes can also be used for other annualized transactions, and to get some credits one need not owe any taxes. And there is a net transfer of wealth from young to old and urban to rural routed through tax policy.

        Government expenditures account for about 1/3 to 2/5 of GDP in most years. Given that persistent fact, someone criticizing socialism (say on Fox News) really ought to be more specific about what forms of socialism or government subsidies they do or don't like.
        Last edited by togor; 01-26-2020, 02:06.

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        • togor
          Banned
          • Nov 2009
          • 17610

          #19
          Speaking of the TVA, there is an article about it in the NYT. Behind paywall, unfortunately.

          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/o...Authority.html

          The gist of it is that some of their customers (cities in Tennessee) would like renewables brought into the service area, and there are private investors willing to build the lines to bring power (from say OK), but TVA lacks an independent management with decision-making authority about such things. Coal ash is nobody's friend.

          Anyways count me among those who think that a privatized TVA, properly regulated, would be an improvement over the current situation.

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          • Sandpebble
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2017
            • 2196

            #20
            Hatred is an honest emotion .....

            Comment

            • S.A. Boggs
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 8579

              #21
              Originally posted by Sandpebble
              Hatred is an honest emotion .....
              Very true.
              Sam

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              • Vern Humphrey
                Administrator - OFC
                • Aug 2009
                • 15875

                #22
                Originally posted by S.A. Boggs
                Very true.
                Sam
                How can hatred be honest? It's totally self-centered and over rides all ideas of fairness and justice.

                Comment

                • togor
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 17610

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
                  How can hatred be honest? It's totally self-centered and over rides all ideas of fairness and justice.
                  People can honestly want what they want, damn the arguments against it or consequences of getting it. Politics counts on this fact.

                  Comment

                  • S.A. Boggs
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 8579

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
                    How can hatred be honest? It's totally self-centered and over rides all ideas of fairness and justice.
                    Hatred is an emotion, neither good nor bad...just an emotion. Look @ the California critter and his bulging eye. Whenever he speaks of the President, his hatred comes forth exposing what he is. People can voice that they don't hate someone, yet their hatred betrays the lie. Schiff and Nadler hate the President, that is apparent therefore honest hatred.
                    Sam

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                    • togor
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 17610

                      #25
                      Does Trump hate anyone? Before answering, I'll share my prayer for him. I ask God to fill Trump's heart with so much love for all of creation, everyone and everything in it, so that it is near the bursting point each and every moment of his days.
                      Last edited by togor; 01-27-2020, 01:15.

                      Comment

                      • Vern Humphrey
                        Administrator - OFC
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 15875

                        #26
                        Originally posted by S.A. Boggs
                        Hatred is an emotion, neither good nor bad...just an emotion. Look @ the California critter and his bulging eye. Whenever he speaks of the President, his hatred comes forth exposing what he is. People can voice that they don't hate someone, yet their hatred betrays the lie. Schiff and Nadler hate the President, that is apparent therefore honest hatred.
                        Sam
                        Honesty would compel someone NOT to hate. How can a person be objective or honest when they hate?

                        Look at the Three Stooges -- their hatred drives them into the weirdest positions.

                        Comment

                        • Roadkingtrax
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 7835

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
                          Honesty would compel someone NOT to hate. How can a person be objective or honest when they hate?

                          Look at the Three Stooges -- their hatred drives them into the weirdest positions.
                          Virtue Signaling is a dishonest form of hate, hidden behind your self righteous indignation.
                          "The first gun that was fired at Fort Sumter sounded the death-knell of slavery. They who fired it were the greatest practical abolitionists this nation has produced." ~BG D. Ullman

                          Comment

                          • togor
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 17610

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Roadkingtrax
                            Virtue Signaling is a dishonest form of hate, hidden behind your self righteous indignation.
                            ...and insults of other forum members.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Added: in my experience, people are more honest with their expressions of emotion than with their given reasons. True regardless of education or professional level, although highly educated people sometimes erect more elaborate facades.

                            Comment

                            • lyman
                              Administrator - OFC
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 11296

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
                              Honesty would compel someone NOT to hate. How can a person be objective or honest when they hate?

                              Look at the Three Stooges -- their hatred drives them into the weirdest positions.
                              drop the stooges stuff,


                              please,

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