Early voting...

[lyman]

Red's link works but yours is busted.

Observation #1: Plenty of Republicans still get elected in legislatures where "traditional" voter registration rules apply (simple practices, not photo ID).

Observation #2: States where the GOP has sought to gain advantage by suppressing young/poor/minority turnout more likely to show up among the states with strong ID required. NC was among them but a court decision threw out their law.

Observation #3: Since we don't have any strong data of widespread voter fraud in this state or that, just strong feelings about the subject, there is no way to correlate strength of ID requirement with rates of fraud.

IDs are a voter suppression mechanism.

Now interestingly enough there has been talk of late that Trump has been trying to expand his coalition to include traditionally low-turnout voters of the type most easily suppressed by strong ID rules. My guess is that if they got hard data that his voters were getting caught in ID issues, and it was hurting their performance at the polls, they would change their tune so fast heads would spin.

link was just copied from his post,,


observation,,,


why just GOP? not much objectivitiy there,,


showing ID as a voter suppression??

wouldn't it be more like voter accountability or accuracy?

how many people in this country have no form of ID at all?

[togor]

Yes, voter ID, and other rules, for voter suppression. Not everyone has lived in the same house for 25 years.

Early voting, which Red doesn't like, was being used by college kids in Texas. So what did the legislature do? You can guess but here is a link.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/10/texas-temporary-voting-access-young-rural-voters/

As for the question: "how many people in this country have no form of ID at all?"

I'd say kids, and the super dirt-poor at the fringe of society. Beyond that there is at least something--a health insurance card if nothing else.

This is becoming a "Papers, please" country more and more, with each successive generation growing more comfortable with the idea. I think a little foot-dragging against this trend is a good idea, especially when it comes to deciding which politicians get into power. If someone came up with hard evidence that there was say a 0.5% error rate due to fraud, and that this fraud could be reduced to say 0.01% with strong IDs, then could see it. But nobody has shown that. Instead what we get is these moves to make the rules a little tougher, or to kick people off of voter rolls--even in states where they have to show strong ID to execute a vote--in order to drive down turnout of groups unlikely to support certain politicians.

So it's not just the ID. The ID is part of it. Tweak the rules of voting. Jigger the districts. Whatever it takes to keep certain factions in power. Politicians should not be allowed to choose their own voters. If simple statements are needed to get the point across, there's one for you.

[rayg]

link was just copied from his post,,

how many people in this country have no form of ID at all?

Probably Zero....or close to it...And there are easy steps you can take in every municipality to obtain one..There is no excuse for not having one....

[Vern Humphrey]

Probably Zero....or close to it...And there are easy steps you can take in every municipality to obtain one..There is no excuse for not having one....

You have to have ID to open a bank account, buy tobacco or alcohol, or board an aircraft. If you don't drive, in most states you can still get an ID from the DMV. The idea that requiring an ID tp vote is somehow "voter suppression" is merely an admission that the person making that claim favors voter fraud.

[togor]

You have to have ID to open a bank account, buy tobacco or alcohol, or board an aircraft. If you don't drive, in most states you can still get an ID from the DMV. The idea that requiring an ID tp vote is somehow "voter suppression" is merely an admission that the person making that claim favors voter fraud.

So in your view voting is just another commercial transaction? Not a fundamental right of our society?

Wow

Even so this doesn't explain the games being played with districts, polling station availability, voting hours, etc.

One area of voter fraud that doesn't get much mention--absentee ballots of disabled voters. Who fills them out? It's anybody's guess, and no one is going to look at it.

[S.A. Boggs]

You have to have ID to open a bank account, buy tobacco or alcohol, or board an aircraft. If you don't drive, in most states you can still get an ID from the DMV. The idea that requiring an ID tp vote is somehow "voter suppression" is merely an admission that the person making that claim favors voter fraud.

Be careful Vern or you will "tax" their congruent ability.
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

Be careful Vern or you will "tax" their congruent ability.
Sam

They're already showing signs of cranial overload.

[lyman]

Yes, voter ID, and other rules, for voter suppression. Not everyone has lived in the same house for 25 years.

Early voting, which Red doesn't like, was being used by college kids in Texas. So what did the legislature do? You can guess but here is a link.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/10/texas-temporary-voting-access-young-rural-voters/

As for the question: "how many people in this country have no form of ID at all?"

I'd say kids, and the super dirt-poor at the fringe of society. Beyond that there is at least something--a health insurance card if nothing else.

This is becoming a "Papers, please" country more and more, with each successive generation growing more comfortable with the idea. I think a little foot-dragging against this trend is a good idea, especially when it comes to deciding which politicians get into power. If someone came up with hard evidence that there was say a 0.5% error rate due to fraud, and that this fraud could be reduced to say 0.01% with strong IDs, then could see it. But nobody has shown that. Instead what we get is these moves to make the rules a little tougher, or to kick people off of voter rolls--even in states where they have to show strong ID to execute a vote--in order to drive down turnout of groups unlikely to support certain politicians.

So it's not just the ID. The ID is part of it. Tweak the rules of voting. Jigger the districts. Whatever it takes to keep certain factions in power. Politicians should not be allowed to choose their own voters. If simple statements are needed to get the point across, there's one for you.

you negated you arguement,

there will always be folks living under the radar, off grid, or whatever you want to call it, and they will not be able to vote by the laws (note, law, note suppressed)of the state they are in,,

these are also the folks that don't have a DL but still drive, cash only etc etc,

just like you will have folks that have every form of ID known to man and yet still won't take the time to vote,
either at the polls, early voting, absentee voting etc, they just will not do it,


fraud is everywhere, but as you mentioned, IIRC, a small percent,
you keep mentioning GOP issues, and also seem to gloss over or ignore DNC issues (hanging chads, trunkloads of ballots that just show up, etc etc)

- - - Updated - - -

So in your view voting is just another commercial transaction? Not a fundamental right of our society?

Wow

not a commercial transaction, a way to make sure you do vote,

what if the .gov (regardless of who the president is) said voting was mandatory,
and the ID was needed to get you off the list or a fine,,
would it be ok then??

Even so this doesn't explain the games being played with districts, polling station availability, voting hours, etc.

hours in VA are good, unless you want to vote after 8 or 9,, or overnight,
polling stations are free and clear, and well advertised (when you register you get a card showing you districts etc and polling station w\ address)

districts? Gerrymandering is a thing,, seems in this part of the country the D's have favor,, one day that may change,, or not,

One area of voter fraud that doesn't get much mention--absentee ballots of disabled voters. Who fills them out? It's anybody's guess, and no one is going to look at it.

I would imagine it is a small percentage,,

[Sandpebble]

Well this may well be the surprise of all time for many of you... but

I'll stand with the majority here on this one ... If you are too afraid to be I.D. ' d then you have given up the right to vote .

You do need to prove you have the right... to excercise the right

[lyman]

Well this may well be the surprise of all time for many of you... but

I'll stand with the majority here on this one ... If you are too afraid to be I.D. ' d then you have given up the right to vote .

You do need to prove you have the right... to excercise the right

makes sense to me,


now they will claim I am on your side again!!!

[Roadkingtrax]

Oh boy!

Lyman, I too would much rather have the full faith and confidence that a US Citizen, and a resident of the Voting State be affirmed and counted.

[togor]

Lyman, some interesting reading. Probably just a coincidence that these laws always seem to gum up minority voting disproportionately, even though they are.... minorities (of the population). Try not to get hung up on the source, or the slant, and instead just consider if the claims are factually verifiable. Or, find the mirror image site that describes how the other side achieves the same ends.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...erm-elections/

My view is people should be free to vote, and parties should fairly compete for that vote. Suppression of unfavorable votes is like insurance companies dropping the sick. If they can, they'll do it.

[Vern Humphrey]

I would imagine it is a small percentage,,

Regarding absentee ballots, I will tell you they are a major source for fraud. As I said earlier, I have investigated many cases of voter fraud -- Ironically, most of it in the Democrat primaries. Arkansas, until recently, was a "Yellow Dog" Democrat state. If you won the Democrat primary, you automatically won the election -- so almost all the fraud was in Democrat primaries.

Here's how you steal an election:

First, get a copy of the list of Registered Voters. That's a public record and you have a right to it. It will cost you $20 to get it on disk.

Next, get a telephone book. Nothing illegal about that, either.

Now get a big stack of voter registration forms -- nothing illegal about that. Lots of different organizations conduct voter registration drives and registration forms are given out freely.

Now match the telephone book with the list of Registered Voters. For every person who is in the telephone book but NOT on list of Registered Voters, fill out a registration form and send it to the Secretary of State. These people will all be registered without ever appearing in person.

Then request absentee ballots for all those persons you registered. (We had one case where a lawyer in Hot Springs had a couple of hundred absentee ballots sent to his office -- he couldn't figure out how we caught him!)

When Arkansas went to picture IDs, and required Xerox copies of photo IDs be enclosed with returned absentee ballots, the amount of voter fraud dropped dramatically.

[S.A. Boggs]

Regarding absentee ballots, I will tell you they are a major source for fraud. As I said earlier, I have investigated many cases of voter fraud -- Ironically, most of it in the Democrat primaries. Arkansas, until recently, was a "Yellow Dog" Democrat state. If you won the Democrat primary, you automatically won the election -- so almost all the fraud was in Democrat primaries.

Here's how you steal an election:

First, get a copy of the list of Registered Voters. That's a public record and you have a right to it. It will cost you $20 to get it on disk.

Next, get a telephone book. Nothing illegal about that, either.

Now get a big stack of voter registration forms -- nothing illegal about that. Lots of different organizations conduct voter registration drives and registration forms are given out freely.

Now match the telephone book with the list of Registered Voters. For every person who is in the telephone book but NOT on list of Registered Voters, fill out a registration form and send it to the Secretary of State. These people will all be registered without ever appearing in person.

Then request absentee ballots for all those persons you registered. (We had one case where a lawyer in Hot Springs had a couple of hundred absentee ballots sent to his office -- he couldn't figure out how we caught him!)

When Arkansas went to picture IDs, and required Xerox copies of photo IDs be enclosed with returned absentee ballots, the amount of voter fraud dropped dramatically.

"They" do it much easier now to "suppress" the vote, now the deep state intel has the "Russian" interference to cover their tracks better. The MSM helps them on this way of "voting" to help them steal the election.
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

"They" do it much easier now to "suppress" the vote, now the deep state intel has the "Russian" interference to cover their tracks better. The MSM helps them on this way of "voting" to help them steal the election.
Sam

Can anybody tell me what the Russians DID to affect the outcome of the election of '16?