Biden plans to shut down gun industry!

[lyman]

Lyman,

We're not going to conflate the rifle and the magazine here.

I use 20 round mags in 5.56 and 10 rounders in 7.62 in my AR actions. 30's are common in 5.56, used by LE, and I suppose 20's for 7.62. I don't have a problem with us commoners owning those sizes since I do myself. But I find that they just don't get used in my own shooting.

Trump made bump stocks go away by executive fiat, and there was nary a murmur of protest among gun owners. If they found a regulatory device to do the same with 100 round mags, I predict the same result.

If they said,

"You want 100 round mags, then buy a stamp and send us your fingerprints,"

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

And the nation's pumpkins would rejoice.

just remember, since you got yours,,, under the biden/beto/Dem approach, your rifles, including that G43 you shoot, are all affected,

and would make you a felon,

[togor]

Oh I am aware of the sentiments out there. I remember how it was right after Newtown. I can actually give a more persuasive defense of ARs to a gun banner than what you'll get from the NRA. And I've done it many times.

Nonetheless it's not obvious to me that C&R weapons and 100 round mags are eternally inseparable. I would go so far as to say that it's worth the effort to create space between them in the mind of the public. That shouldn't be hard either.

[Marty T.]

I'm just gonna throw this in this one time, but I get so tired of the bickering about rounds and actions and all. The Second Amendment says I can "keep and bear arms" and that's it. No fingerprints, no keeping ammo separate, no maximum allowed, nothing along those lines. In short, I have the freedom to have anything that the US armed forces (short of nuclear arms for lack of being able to store and maintain properly without endangering others) have. I can have a tank, a cannon, any type of rifle I want. Those are all considered "arms". But due to NO ONE blaming idiots for misuse of an item, some think it's a great idea to do away with this amendment. Which others do we not need anymore, or how about we just let the nitwits in gov. decide when I can take a dump?
Punish, and I mean PUNISH, the criminal and not the innocent and a lot of our problems will go away, since the honest folk are not doing the crimes anyway. Leave the gun owners alone to do what they have the right to do, and quit thinking that solving the problem involves doing away with our rights.

[lyman]

Oh I am aware of the sentiments out there. I remember how it was right after Newtown. I can actually give a more persuasive defense of ARs to a gun banner than what you'll get from the NRA. And I've done it many times.

Nonetheless it's not obvious to me that C&R weapons and 100 round mags are eternally inseparable. I would go so far as to say that it's worth the effort to create space between them in the mind of the public. That shouldn't be hard either.

death from a 1000 cuts,

ban one thing, another soon follows,


you surely have seen that happen already,



when someone can simply look at history, and see a gatling gun (not NFA btw) with a hopper, or a 1903 or 98 with a 'high capacity magazine',

or a scope to make it a deadly sniper weapon,,,,


all have been considered by your side,

and will be tried again and again,


you know this and are apparently ok with it,

[togor]

Lyman,

Sneaky to put a "your side" reference in there, as if I am an anti-gunner. On this issue, I'm on my own side. Not theirs, and not necessarily yours.

There are facets to this, and black/white thinking is for the simple-minded, which on most topics doesn't include you. So I'll proceed on the assumption that aside from playing to the audience here, you can understand there are layers to this.

So to a question:

Given that C&R firearms are a reputable collecting area, supported by respectable writers and auction houses, with some arms in this area being historically significant (think Gas Trap Garands),

Do I think it inevitable that C&R guns are going to be painted with the same brush as a $150 KCA 100 round AR drum?

No I do not.

Now I understand why the guy who wants to assault pumpkins on the weekend would want to say that he's doing exactly the same thing as the guy who collects C&R weapons (as he might be exactly the same guy), or who goes deer hunting with his scoped bolt gun,

But,

People understand there is a difference. Valuable C&R guns don't end up in mass shootings. Long guns with limited magazine capacity are of course deadly but cannot produce the volume of fire. These are obvious points that some people refuse to acknowledge.

The 100 round drum is a recreational accessory, much as a bump stock was. Not anyone's go-to for defense, because of the danger of misfeeds. However the one guy did pair the two to disastrous consequences. I wouldn't ban drum mags, but I have no problem with a Form 4 route.

Added: "Death by 1,000 cuts" is the effect that some see mass shootings having on public life in the US, or gun rights for that matter as each shooting brings the day closer when something is finally done.

[S.A. Boggs]

Lyman,

Sneaky to put a "your side" reference in there, as if I am an anti-gunner. On this issue, I'm on my own side. Not theirs, and not necessarily yours.

There are facets to this, and black/white thinking is for the simple-minded, which on most topics doesn't include you. So I'll proceed on the assumption that aside from playing to the audience here, you can understand there are layers to this.

So to a question:

Given that C&R firearms are a reputable collecting area, supported by respectable writers and auction houses, with some arms in this area being historically significant (think Gas Trap Garands),

Do I think it inevitable that C&R guns are going to be painted with the same brush as a $150 KCA 100 round AR drum?

No I do not.

Now I understand why the guy who wants to assault pumpkins on the weekend would want to say that he's doing exactly the same thing as the guy who collects C&R weapons (as he might be exactly the same guy), or who goes deer hunting with his scoped bolt gun,

But,

People understand there is a difference. Valuable C&R guns don't end up in mass shootings. Long guns with limited magazine capacity are of course deadly but cannot produce the volume of fire. These are obvious points that some people refuse to acknowledge.

The 100 round drum is a recreational accessory, much as a bump stock was. Not anyone's go-to for defense, because of the danger of misfeeds. However the one guy did pair the two to disastrous consequences. I wouldn't ban drum mags, but I have no problem with a Form 4 route.

Thank you for pointing this out.
Sam

[togor]

I'm just gonna throw this in this one time, but I get so tired of the bickering about rounds and actions and all. The Second Amendment says I can "keep and bear arms" and that's it. No fingerprints, no keeping ammo separate, no maximum allowed, nothing along those lines. In short, I have the freedom to have anything that the US armed forces (short of nuclear arms for lack of being able to store and maintain properly without endangering others) have. I can have a tank, a cannon, any type of rifle I want. Those are all considered "arms". But due to NO ONE blaming idiots for misuse of an item, some think it's a great idea to do away with this amendment. Which others do we not need anymore, or how about we just let the nitwits in gov. decide when I can take a dump?
Punish, and I mean PUNISH, the criminal and not the innocent and a lot of our problems will go away, since the honest folk are not doing the crimes anyway. Leave the gun owners alone to do what they have the right to do, and quit thinking that solving the problem involves doing away with our rights.

Punish the criminal after the victim is dead.

They're making new criminals all the time.

Sometimes people try to get ahead of the problem a bit.

Anyways, the question: "why can't I have all the firepower that I want?" is self-answering.

[S.A. Boggs]

Punish the criminal after the victim is dead.

They're making new criminals all the time.

Sometimes people try to get ahead of the problem a bit.

Anyways, the question: "why can't I have all the firepower that I want?" is self-answering.

What happens when "one" doesn't give the "correct" answer who then is to decide? What happens if "others" don't like the person's answer. What is "correct" for you might and will be wrong for others.
Sam

[lyman]

Lyman,

Sneaky to put a "your side" reference in there, as if I am an anti-gunner. On this issue, I'm on my own side. Not theirs, and not necessarily yours.

There are facets to this, and black/white thinking is for the simple-minded, which on most topics doesn't include you. So I'll proceed on the assumption that aside from playing to the audience here, you can understand there are layers to this.

So to a question:

Given that C&R firearms are a reputable collecting area, supported by respectable writers and auction houses, with some arms in this area being historically significant (think Gas Trap Garands),

Do I think it inevitable that C&R guns are going to be painted with the same brush as a $150 KCA 100 round AR drum?

No I do not.

Now I understand why the guy who wants to assault pumpkins on the weekend would want to say that he's doing exactly the same thing as the guy who collects C&R weapons (as he might be exactly the same guy), or who goes deer hunting with his scoped bolt gun,

But,

People understand there is a difference. Valuable C&R guns don't end up in mass shootings. Long guns with limited magazine capacity are of course deadly but cannot produce the volume of fire. These are obvious points that some people refuse to acknowledge.

The 100 round drum is a recreational accessory, much as a bump stock was. Not anyone's go-to for defense, because of the danger of misfeeds. However the one guy did pair the two to disastrous consequences. I wouldn't ban drum mags, but I have no problem with a Form 4 route.

Added: "Death by 1,000 cuts" is the effect that some see mass shootings having on public life in the US, or gun rights for that matter as each shooting brings the day closer when something is finally done.

you realize that when you get insulting it proves you are either threatened, wrong , or just like most here believe you are,, a pompous,,,,, Fudd,

you need to read the fine print on the recent batch of restrictions and bans (most of which were voted out)
there are a lot of C&R guns that would be banned out right just by the definition/descriptions in the bills,,


your but is where you draw the line,, that puts you again at odds with a large percentage of the gun owning world,

go look at what ends up in the hands of those that do mass shootings, (less than one half percent of the one pecent used IIRC) would be banned,,,, if not less

dude in Las Vegas had bump stocks on a couple firearms, and from what I recall reading, he did not use either one,

another fallacy about the 100 round drum,,, you say valuable C&R,,, have you priced a Vintage Thompson C drum lately??
or would you consider that the exception to your rule?

- - - Updated - - -

Punish the criminal after the victim is dead.

They're making new criminals all the time.

Sometimes people try to get ahead of the problem a bit.

Anyways, the question: "why can't I have all the firepower that I want?" is self-answering.

when the ban comes to Wisconsin,, be sure to be the first in line to turn your stuff in,


it's what you want after all

and make sure all your kitchen knives are dull, and accounted for

[togor]

Lyman,

Take a breath, calm down.

I haven't favored banning anything.

Go back and reread my posts.

Nor have I insulted anyone. I did object to you lumping me in the anti-gunner camp, and rightfully so.

What have I said in this thread is:

Drum mags are a lot like bump stocks in that they can produce an increase in volume of fire.

Almost always recreationally, but sometimes not.

Bump stocks are gone. I disagree with the way they made that happen, but no one in the gun community seemed to fight all that hard over it. Bye-bye, bump stocks!

I would not see drum mags banned, but I could see them listed for Form 4 acquisition and have no problems with it.

The fact that this gets me lumped in with gun banners and called all kinds of names strikes me as pretty wild.

But these are tense times.

Stay well!

[Gun Smoke]

Lyman,

Take a breath, calm down.

I haven't favored banning anything.

Go back and reread my posts.

Nor have I insulted anyone. I did object to you lumping me in the anti-gunner camp,

You are a democrat. ALL democrats want complete gun confiscation. No one but democrats want guns outlawed. That's who and what you are: PERIOD.

Form 4? Just a type of registration which everyone knows would lead to confiscation. Easy pickings for the democrats having it on record of who and where to pick the item up at.

By what stretch of the imagination has any degree of gun control or regulation pleased the democrats where they want no further action?

[Vern Humphrey]

You are a democrat. ALL democrats want complete gun confiscation. No one but democrats want guns outlawed. That's who and what you are: PERIOD.

Form 4? Just a type of registration which everyone knows would lead to confiscation. Easy pickings for the democrats having it on record of who and where to pick the item up at.

By what stretch of the imagination has any degree of gun control or regulation pleased the democrats where they want no further action?

By what stretch of the imagination has any degree of gun control affected the crime problem?

No rational person could believe victim disarmament would work -- so they obviously are using crime prevention as cover for a darker, more evil agenda.

[lyman]

By what stretch of the imagination has any degree of gun control affected the crime problem?

No rational person could believe victim disarmament would work -- so they obviously are using crime prevention as cover for a darker, more evil agenda.

but togor will feel so much better because he did something,

[Vern Humphrey]

but togor will feel so much better because he did something,

And chortle because he has restricted our freedom.

[togor]

One question for the gallery:

Where was all of this b*tching when bump stocks went away?

I was here. Nary a peep.

I even got dinged for suggesting Trump had a special interest in protecting the public events industries which proved decisive in him giving the order to find a way to ban bump stocks. No, he was doing the right thing, they said. But I say I won't lose sleep if drum mags need a form 4 (which means you can still have them unlike bump stocks) and OMG the sky is falling!

Credibility on this issue is very low on this forum. Just a lot of emotional reaction.