Donald Trump personally caused the loss of 20.000 hospital beds in NYC

[Gun Smoke]

States and cities that declare they are sanctuary states and cities to house the illegals for democrat votes chose to spend their money for such instead of using it for hospitals, ventilators and other medical purposes for the CITIZENS.

The streets are paved with human s**t. It's a small wonder that NY has more cases than any entire country.

You simply can not cram millions of people into small areas, pack them like sardines, and not expect historic levels of disease and filth when outbreaks occur.

[togor]

your argument only shows your bias,


are you for States having rights to do things,, (Coumo's State limits the amount of hospitals that can be built,,,,) or do you think Governor's and the legislative body is just a figure head that needs to do as told by the Feds?


guessing you want to change from United States to just United?

Let's just say I'm having trouble understanding this new kind of Nationalism applauds the Federal Government picking winners and losers in the economy with tariff policy, and strives to have an iron fist at the National border to illegal crossings, but shrugs when a virus gets over the border and runs roughshod over the individual states, none of which was in a position to do anything about the other 49 states.

Covid is obviously treated best as a national problem. To argue otherwise is fashionable, I guess, until the virus tears into the hinterlands.

[S.A. Boggs]

States and cities that declare they are sanctuary states and cities to house the illegals for democrat votes chose to spend their money for such instead of using it for hospitals, ventilators and other medical purposes for the CITIZENS.

The streets are paved with human s**t. It's a small wonder that NY has more cases than any entire country.

You simply can not cram millions of people into small areas, pack them like sardines, and not expect historic levels of disease and filth when outbreaks occur.

Wonder how much the good governor is still spending on illegals, this could be interesting.
Sam

[lyman]

Let's just say I'm having trouble understanding this new kind of Nationalism applauds the Federal Government picking winners and losers in the economy with tariff policy, and strives to have an iron fist at the National border to illegal crossings, but shrugs when a virus gets over the border and runs roughshod over the individual states, none of which was in a position to do anything about the other 49 states.

Covid is obviously treated best as a national problem. To argue otherwise is fashionable, I guess, until the virus tears into the hinterlands.

question dodged,,, as usual

[togor]

Pfft

I take more questions on straight up here than anybody.

But the medium has limits.

Arguing that certain problems are best tackled at the Federal level does not mean one opposes state sovereignty where applicable.

The right certainly saw Ebola in 2014 as a Federal problem.

Trump describes himself as a War President, re: Covid-19, which is as affirmative an admission you will find of a Federal scope to the problem.

As for how it should work....

At different levels of government, different people control different resources. Those resources are best coordinated by areas of influence and responsibility, under an umbrella big enough to manage the problem.

So a national response,

Governors coordinating the national strategy in their area of operation. Country execs and mayors, etc. below them.

If a national strategy makes sense,

and for this one it seems to,

then it falls to the governors to implement that strategy as best they can in their state,

With the Federal Government marshalling resources as necessary across the landscape.

Federalism in this context means Kentucky can't set policy for Tennessee,

And if they're employing contradictory strategies, it's clearly counterproductive.

So the role of the Federal Government is to keep a unified strategy intact across the country.

War is an apt analogy. Divisions, regiments, battalions, each operating at a different scope,

on the same overall mission.

Do you have a model that makes more sense?

[rayg]

Would you say that again..I didn't know were to start...Lol

[S.A. Boggs]

Would you say that again..I didn't know were to start...Lol

Ray remember, "Children say the darnedest things!" and it is easier to understand their posts. Clinicians called it salad speech and now most appropriate.
Sam

[togor]

Would you say that again..I didn't know were to start...Lol

Lyman asked where I thought states rights fits in the Covid fight. He really wanted an answer so I gave him one. Short answer I suppose is "in the middle".

[TSimonetti]

Maybe NY thought like the other 49 states that the Federal government was going to be on it. Blame anybody but Trump, right? To be sure some governors made mistakes, and some are continuing to make them as we speak. But none of them imagined that the Feds, having claimed jursidiction of pandemic response as a national issue, would let a virus in like an unlatched swinging gate. How was NY supposed to ban flights from Europe without the Feds overriding them. NY didn't, but if they tried, the Feds would have shut them down, and the courts would have backed the Feds.

Was Ebola in 2014 a states' issue? Lord knows the right criticized the snot out of Obama for 2 deaths, 11 cases. Can someone explain that to me, given the budding "state's rights" argument for Covid?

Again, you are ignoring the fact that the WHO and China misled Trump and this nation for many weeks and even then he was prescient enough to order a China travel ban, which everyone eviscerated him for. The Feds do handle Pandemics, in fact Federal funds for the Coronavirus were triggered and were being funnelled into the states without any needed action from Trump due to legislation passed by prior congressional actions. The Governors are the first line of defense. It's their job to fund medical equipment and hospital beds. But I get it. Funding for a future pandemic is not sexy or politically popular because it may never come or it may come years and years down the road. But Cuomo screwed the pooch when it came to preparedness and he also became a whiny little bitch when it was not necessary for him to behave like that. The media is pumping him up as a leader but I saw nothing but weakness in his words and actions.

[togor]

I do not ignore the problems rooted within China. Again, they turned it loose. And governors made and continue to make mistakes. Some more than others. But the White House performance has been abysmal too. What's the plan today, guys? Does it bear any resemblance to yesterday's? No? Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

Circling back to China, and nationalism, do we really blame the Chinese for acting in what they thought was their own best interest? I mean, that's what Trump does, right? With America First? This all-nations-in-the-same-planetary-boat crap went out with Obama, so Trump should have been on guard. That's a purist's interpretation of how this is supposed to work. America works for America, and China works for China.

[TSimonetti]

I do not ignore the problems rooted within China. Again, they turned it loose. And governors made and continue to make mistakes. Some more than others. But the White House performance has been abysmal too. What's the plan today, guys? Does it bear any resemblance to yesterday's? No? Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

Circling back to China, and nationalism, do we really blame the Chinese for acting in what they thought was their own best interest? I mean, that's what Trump does, right? With America First? This all-nations-in-the-same-planetary-boat crap went out with Obama, so Trump should have been on guard. That's a purist's interpretation of how this is supposed to work. America works for America, and China works for China.

Actually, you are being way too harsh on the President. He has to be a leader and calm down the country. After Pearl Harbor, FDR didn't say "Unfortunately we are going to have to face 200 or more pearl harbors before this is all over" Instead, he gave the country his steadfast resolve and gave them optimistic hope instead. I think it's ludicrous to criticize him for mentioning a very promising drug which is in fact working miracles in many documented cases, or for daring to say this will end soon and he sees light at the end of the tunnel. And remember the "PLAN" mainly because of Cuomo and a few others, was to steer all national efforts into making ventilators and PPE's and building hospitals.... Now they are closing the tent hospitals and all the ventilator hype has been a complete waste of time. So yes, plans are changing constantly but it's not because Trump is being wishy-washy or indecisive, it's because of the failed model that Birx and Fauci have been using and because people like Cuomo were acting like Chicken Little way too early before the facts were played out.

Yes I blame China. They violated World health and pandemic protocols agreed to by everyone, they murdered their own citizens and destroyed evidence of the pandemic being a human transferable disease, and I blame WHO, who criticized the Trump China travel ban and caused a slower than necessary response in this country. This is nothing like an America-First policy.

[togor]

So there is disappointment that more people didn't die? That shutting things down worked as well or perhaps better than hoped? Blame Fauci and the models for that?

We've seen what this thing does to nursing homes, given time. Or doctors, nurses, or priests with enough rolls of the dice.

Maybe we need to make the problem simpler for some folks. How many hospital beds are in a 100 mile radius of where you live? How many ICU beds? And how many people live in that same radius? Will there be a bed for you if you get sick bad when this thing is hitting your area?

It's fair to hammer Trump because he's still flailing about for a plan to reopen the country, and that for all of the emergency declarations, the federal government is still awash in red tape. There is a playbook for how to function in a pandemic. Even the Nigerians followed it successfully in their Ebola outbreak.

But what are we hearing now? That the Constitution won't permit the government to deal with epidemics? Curious to see what the Roberts Court does with that.

Added: Trump was not misled. He made a decision that it was all going to blow over. He owns that. Anyone who lets him off the hook for that bad call is not serious about expecting the President to display competence. If little Donny keeps getting A's on his book reports, no matter how poorly written, then after awhile an A means nothing.

[rayg]

Trump this! Trump that! Trump bad! Trump did it, because of Trump, etc...about ever other post of your's...over and over! ...Get help...Lol

[togor]

Trump this! Trump that! Trump bad! Trump did it, because of Trump, etc...about ever other post of your's...over and over! ...Get help...Lol

What is wrong with wanting a pro-active and proven plan for reopening the country? Or expecting the White House to get busy cutting red tape throughout the Federal government?

I'm criticizing his performance, not him personally. Why is that hard for you to understand?

Added: He's doing a lousy job. It's going to get worse. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you can make decisions in the best interest of you and yours.

[Vern Humphrey]

Trump this! Trump that! Trump bad! Trump did it, because of Trump, etc...about ever other post of your's...over and over! ...Get help...Lol

Don't you know Trump caused the eruption of Krakatoa?