Minneapolis delivers on its promise to defund the police

[clintonhater]

Red has a strong bottle going.

And yet, even so, he hits the nail on the head; remarkble.

[togor]

And yet, even so, he hits the nail on the head; remarkble.

Rants from alt-world make as much sense as turning a nail or driving a screw with a hammer.

[lyman]

Rants from togorville make as much sense as turning a nail or driving a screw with a hammer.

fify

[togor]

Back to topic, that Columbus shooting makes the public wonder for the umpteenth time a couple things:

1. why do cops have to take lives like that

2. why is it so blooming hard to change the culture

Now if I understand Ray correctly the answer is: it's a messy job and mistakes will happen and folks just have to live with it. Fair enough, but where I disagree with Ray is: who decides where the line is? Ray says (as near as I can tell, he'll correct me if I'm wrong) it's up to the police to manage themselves. I say the public has to have the final say. Not in a vacuum, but if Mpls needs to try policing differently, then a professional well led force (and union) will do their best to make it work.

Otherwise it's just effing Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Russia, China, or some other place where cops do whatever the f*ck they want so long as part of that is keeping the regime's enemies at bay.

[rayg]

[QUOTE=togor;606134]
it's a messy job and mistakes will happen and folks just have to live with it. it's up to the police to manage themselves.

I NEVER said any of that! You been drinking again..Lol

[dryheat]

When folks act like they are still in the "Old Country" they get different treatment.

[lyman]

Back to topic, that Columbus shooting makes the public wonder for the umpteenth time a couple things:

1. why do cops have to take lives like that

2. why is it so blooming hard to change the culture

Now if I understand Ray correctly the answer is: it's a messy job and mistakes will happen and folks just have to live with it. Fair enough, but where I disagree with Ray is: who decides where the line is? Ray says (as near as I can tell, he'll correct me if I'm wrong) it's up to the police to manage themselves. I say the public has to have the final say. Not in a vacuum, but if Mpls needs to try policing differently, then a professional well led force (and union) will do their best to make it work.

Otherwise it's just effing Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Russia, China, or some other place where cops do whatever the f*ck they want so long as part of that is keeping the regime's enemies at bay.

your points are vaild, but a bit misguided,

1> we trained them to,

cops are taught to neutralize the threat, the culture will not change until it is changed at the top, and the training (and hiring process is changed) and even then it will take time,

remember, a lot of cops are ex military, and the police, for various reasons, have become operator wannabes vs traditional police,

this is not an insult, it's the way we as a nation have become, (various socio/economic reasons may apply)

2>

see #1

[togor]

Agree there is a societal angle here, some post 9/11 deference towards law enforcement maybe, but disagree that the police feel unempowered when it comes to their training. More like they know what they need and don't like the touchy-feely crap that's being put on them from outside. That's the message coming out of Bob Kroll, for sure.

[togor]

Here's another interesting one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3813252001

If you shine a flashlight on police, is it a violation of Federal law?

Apparently so, and a big one, if that flashlight is on your handguard rail.

Someone who points his muzzle at law enforcement is going to get what he gets as a reward, but I can't help but wonder if black militias don't set some ill at ease.

[lyman]

Here's another interesting one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3813252001

If you shine a flashlight on police, is it a violation of Federal law?

Apparently so, and a big one, if that flashlight is on your handguard rail.

Someone who points his muzzle at law enforcement is going to get what he gets as a reward, but I can't help but wonder if black militias don't set some ill at ease.

go put a laser pointer on a plane, or police car, or an officer, see where that gets you,


and think about it, how would an officer, or anyone, know that green or red dot, or bright light , is attached to a firearm, or not?



one of our local city council members proposed new firearms legislation, not because she is a dem and it is what they do, and not cause some white guys were toting guns,
but because a gun toting BL(don't) M groups was marching around like those goobers in Ky, all tacticooled up like wanna be operators (some carry S&W M&P15-22's... snicker)

- - - Updated - - -

Agree there is a societal angle here, some post 9/11 deference towards law enforcement maybe, but disagree that the police feel unempowered when it comes to their training. More like they know what they need and don't like the touchy-feely crap that's being put on them from outside. That's the message coming out of Bob Kroll, for sure.

they don't like it cause it is how they are trained,

cops have a us vs them mentality, mostly acquired over time, it's the mindset they get from doing what they do, (was told that by cops)

any one that works with large groups of people can get similar mindsets, based on the interactions they have with the public,

cops (judges and some lawyer etc as well) that have to deal with the offenders have it tough, since they see people often at their worst

[togor]

I tell my kids, in life you meet people, and it can go + or - depending on whomever those other folks have met before you came along--something over which you have no control. That puts young black guys at a different starting point with cops than old white guys. And maybe part of how it came to be that a deputy in Columbus Ohio shot a black guy on his own front porch coming home from a food run.

[S.A. Boggs]

your points are vaild, but a bit misguided,

1> we trained them to,

cops are taught to neutralize the threat, the culture will not change until it is changed at the top, and the training (and hiring process is changed) and even then it will take time,

remember, a lot of cops are ex military, and the police, for various reasons, have become operator wannabes vs traditional police,

this is not an insult, it's the way we as a nation have become, (various socio/economic reasons may apply)

2>

see #1

When I took the Street Survival Course the first rule we learned was to avoid the "John Wayne Syndrome" and go home in one piece to our family. Society is the problem, not so much the Blue Line. If one is civil to the officer often the officer is civil back. Too many "entitled" have the why me? I didn't do nutin! and so forth. Unfortunately the BLM has embolden many and cops are backing off often with dire consequences.
Biden will continue the attack on police under the guise of "helping" and this will only make the situation worse. Biden and company will fail because too much has been promised to too many parties, many of which are violent.
Sam

[lyman]

I tell my kids, in life you meet people, and it can go + or - depending on whomever those other folks have met before you came along--something over which you have no control. That puts young black guys at a different starting point with cops than old white guys. And maybe part of how it came to be that a deputy in Columbus Ohio shot a black guy on his own front porch coming home from a food run.

so where are the programs to help the young black guys from getting shot, to help them interact with the world?

unfortunately, Stereotypes do exist, and a lot of the young folks today, white and black, like to perpetuate them, and there are a lot of apologist that think anything done to help out (as in prevent bad interactions) would be bad,