Lockdowns, Death Rates, and Jobs

[lyman]

I hope Art isn't arguing that lockdowns cause covid. Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like I said, N. Italy went into lockdown only after things were spinning out of control.

Art may be arguing that covid causes lockdowns cause death because that's the chronological order. But the order isn't causality. The lockdowns are ordered as a result of the spike in cases, and the spike in cases leads to a spike in deaths about 4 weeks out, because that's how long on average it takes to die from covid-19.

Remember just because A and B occur together doesn't mean A causes B, or B causes A. Both may be caused by C. I have a brand new stamp in my passport, and I'm feeling jet-lagged. Did the stamp cause the jet lag? Of course not. Both resulted from a long international flight.

The governor of Texas in his infinite Texas wisdom has declared the pandemic pretty much over. Curious to see how that goes, and who in Texas believes him, and who doesn't.

this ^^^ is random words,, not proving him wrong, or right, and not having much to do with the topic you questioned


when you call someone out, have the data to back it up,

otherwise,, it's just noise and accusations,

[togor]

this ^^^ is random words,, not proving him wrong, or right, and not having much to do with the topic you questioned


when you call someone out, have the data to back it up,

otherwise,, it's just noise and accusations,

The words are fine. If someone chooses not to follow, that's not on me!!!

What was lacking in the original claim is an explanation of HOW lockdowns CAUSE more covid deaths.

Different topic, but similar theme, maybe I'll call you out on your claim that the vaccine has a 1% fatality rate, roughly same as the virus. Or maybe that was hyperbole? Playful misinformation that nobody should take seriously? Didn't see a dancing banana though. As you said, things people post can come back to bite them.

[lyman]

so you claim Art's data and findings are not actual, or not 'real' or not what is really happening, as in question his post,

yet you provide no data to back up your , or Pebbles claim?

and are now getting teary eyed over someone asking for data or proof?

how many times have you done the exact thing in the past?


trolling?


eta,,, and btw,,, making it personal? (no vanity on my end,, )

seems so.....



re the other, , decimal point and 0 typo,, I'll need to find that thread and correct it,

[Art]

1. The point wasn't that lockdowns make it worse. The point was that statistically drastic lockdowns, total shutdowns of businesses, especially the hospitality business as well as schools look like a situation where the "juice wasn't worth the squeeze." In fact it seems there was minimal "juice." Millions of poor children have been set back, permanently in many cases by school shutdowns, impacting their ability to escape poverty in a big way. My grandson's progress has been set back minimally because unlike most really poor kids he lives with a man and a woman who are married to each other, are financially stable, deeply involved in the boy's life and have WiFi and know how to use it. In class learning in Texas has been re instituted for a while now where we live so he's back in school and real glad of it. Then there is financial wreckage caused by the elimination of millions of peoples lively hoods, and the despair and depression caused by it.

2. Why are things so bad in New York? I don't have a solid answer to that but statistically there it is. There are two things that didn't help. First the N.Y. authorities did not acknowledge the problem until late spring. Worse they (especially DiBlasio) spent two months encouraging people to "press the flesh" by making a special effort to go out to eat, go to the theatre, patronize bars and nightclubs ect. during a period when the 'gubmint health gurus were telling people masks were bad. The preventable nursing home disaster also probably contributed at least 5,000 deaths to the total, though the exact number is a bit hard to pin down because of the cover up. All of those things together can't explain why the N.Y. death rate is 50% (15,000 deaths) higher than Florida's but they surely account for a significant chunk of it.

the point is lockdowns are overrated, possibly overrated by a lot. The stats show that, you can verify the facts yourself. In the now cliche'd words of Bill Parcells, "it is what it is."

Finally, I am not the usual doctrinaire right winger, I'm certainly capable of giving the devil his due. I though Bill Clinton was a charming but pathological person, but, hey, he was a politician. Politically he did some stuff anyone on the right on these forums would have no problem with, the protection of heterosexual marriage in "The Defense of Marriage Act." the defense of religious freedom in "The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and the endorsement of "broken windows policing" contained in the otherwise flawed "1993 Crime Control Act;' heck sons of the Confederacy would have to applaud his law when governor of Arkansas protecting Confederate Monuments.

I will also admit to thinking at the start that Andrew Cuomo was doing a decent job of managing the pandemic in New York until suddenly the wheels came off and it was clear for all to see that the "emperor had no clothes."

The stats are what the stats are. I verified them through more than one source.

[Johnny P]

Biden is leveling the playing field. Put the Covid infected illegals on a bus and send them all over the country.

[Vern Humphrey]

1. The point wasn't that lockdowns make it worse.

It's a standard tactic for him to put words in your mouth. It's a variation of the Strawman Argument.

[m1ashooter]

Well stated Art and my observations mirror yours.

[lyman]

interesting piece in the WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vindication-for-ron-desantis-11614986751

[Vern Humphrey]

Science, it appears, trumps ideology.

[lyman]

Science, it appears, trumps ideology.

still waiting for a reply from togor from the post on page 2....

[Vern Humphrey]

still waiting for a reply from togor from the post on page 2....

You'll wait a long time -- he don't do evidence.

[Sandpebble]

Four years of Donald Trump who ruled with out the need of facts or evidence .... and now we're demanding evidence from forum posters ....hmmph

[rayg]

One of togor's other post names...Lol

[lyman]

Four years of Donald Trump who ruled with out the need of facts or evidence .... and now we're demanding evidence from forum posters ....hmmph

not demanding anything,

asking to prove the assertions,


the same you did for the past 4 years,,,,

[rayg]

Four years of Donald Trump who ruled with out the need of facts or evidence .... and now we're demanding evidence from forum posters ....hmmph

No just from Togor..SPP is one of togor's other post names...I'd bet that he uses a number of different names here. To bad it can't be confirmed as they are probably with different computers..... Lol