The Dynamics of Red Flag Laws

[rayg]

Ok in answer to Togor's post! It's not baiting and trapping! as anything a professors says in class is not a protected speech under the law! Simple as that

[togor]

Ok in answer to Togor's post! It's not baiting and trapping! as anything a professors says in class is not a protected speech under the law! Simple as that

So if it's that simple, why the exemption so kids can secretly record their profs? That's the law and that's the issue you're ducking. The whole point of that exemption is to use it to make profs look bad.

[rayg]

Sounds simple to me..It says "CAN" record...Why is that so hard to understand?..

[lyman]

So if it's that simple, why the exemption so kids can secretly record their profs? That's the law and that's the issue you're ducking. The whole point of that exemption is to use it to make profs look bad.

most don't need help

[rayg]

So if it's that simple, why the exemption so kids can secretly record their profs? That's the law and that's the issue you're ducking. The whole point of that exemption is to use it to make profs look bad.

No the whole point is to keep professors from pushing their own political agendas, either right or left, on the students....What could be wrong with that?

[Vern Humphrey]

No the whole point is to keep professors from pushing their own political agendas, either right or left, on the students....What could be wrong with that?

Students have been taping lectures for more than 50 years. So what's suddenly so evil about it?

[dryheat]

Maybe because it's cool now to protest and make trouble for other people.

[RicM]

Regardless of the law. If you are a nut case, wife beater, criminal, etc, yes pull the firearms. What is MORE concerning is that a teacher or medical doctor can make a complaint. There have been many examples of teachers questioning children about firearms in the home as well as Doctors who may do the same. Problem is most States you do NOT need probable cause. All they need in a complaint and person who will tell a Judge their complaint even if its not founded and you have NO RIGHT to be present and defend yourself legally during that process. All you need is an allegation from say a nasty neighbor or relative or person who is very mad at you, or even people I have seen who hold different political beliefs with an anti-gun mentality will also make fake claims.

So one HUGE advice for those who reside in States that you need handguns or certain firearms on their permits and not long guns that don't require registration. Keep all your registered weapons such as those licensed handguns etc, in a separate safe in another location in your home away from all your other long guns, extended magazines, all your ammunition etc,. Why is this you may ask?

When the police act on any Red Flag claim they will have a search warrant to enter your residence and they will have a list of all your registered firearms, you MUST comply otherwise you will be arrested. Once they are inside they request the firearm in question. YOU cannot show or retrieve it, you must tell them where it is while they search. They will not leave until they retrieve that firearm AND if it is stored away with other legally owned firearms and ammunition and all firearm magazines etc, they will confiscate them also!! ALSO anything that may be deemed illegal in your State that you have, you will be arrested for that on the spot!!! There was a case in CT where as a disgrunted ex wife made a fake allegation and the State Red Flagged that guy. During the search they also found in his safe a few AR15s which in CT State Law were not registered and extended magazines. He was promptly arrested on felony charges. I stand to be corrected but in most States that have this Red Flag Law, the person who has their firearms confiscated do NOT have legal recourse on the complainant once it shows that the initial complaint was false and baseless. I believe the State of Colorado is the only State that does.

I am not saying the law itself is a bad thing, just that these laws must be amended to protect innocent people being victims of false allegations. So best advice.....store all State registered weapons separate from all other firearms, weapons, ammunition etc. If this happens to you on a fake unfounded allegation well then you just direct them to the one room where your licensed firearms are kept and state you have nothing else. The Red Flag Warrant restricts them from continuing searching your home once the firearms in question are recovered. Also get a receipt with serial numbers. Another way on recovering them quickly with no cost of an attorney, would be having all your registered firearms also on the license of a immediate family member. Example, my son who does not reside with me has on his permit all my licensed firearms. So he can go right to the Police Station and claim them.

ALSO take note!! Anything else that the police see while conducting that search warrant, that may be considered illegally owned, well you will be charged with it. It will be considered found in "plain site".

[JB White]

Basically, red flag laws are based on the idea it is better to punish people for crimes they have never committed than it is for law enforcement to do its job.

Vern, you may wish to amend that statement to read 'punish people for crimes they might commit....'? Use both ways. Your words aren't wrong.
With a blanket type red flag innocent people are lumped into the class of people the sales hype it,s focused on. Truly a double edged sword. Bad for those who the enforcement can hurt for no real reason. Bad for those who let some one else slip through.

Then there are the hoops to jump through to avoid unwarranted confiscation as described above. It may work in some states. In others with a "Full disclosure" requirement, perhaps not.
Meanwhile Joe Scumbag forfeits his, only to sell a couple of dime bags and a hangul of rocks, or chop shop a couple of cars etc. and he's only slowed down for a day or two. Back to normal with his latest disposable black market pistol in pocket.

Even if the intent is noble and worthy, the tattle tale vengeance factor still exists. I doubt there is anyone in office who is capable of writing a good version of a RF law that's easy enough to interpret at the point where it really matters.
At booking and pre trial hearings.
Before an innocent is forced into a cell and forced to pay thousands of dollars while an ex or ahole neighbor can laugh at the grief they caused.

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, you may wish to amend that statement to read 'punish people for crimes they might commit....'? Use both ways. Your words aren't wrong.
With a blanket type red flag innocent people are lumped into the class of people the sales hype it,s focused on. Truly a double edged sword. Bad for those who the enforcement can hurt for no real reason. Bad for those who let some one else slip through.

Then there are the hoops to jump through to avoid unwarranted confiscation as described above. It may work in some states. In others with a "Full disclosure" requirement, perhaps not.
Meanwhile Joe Scumbag forfeits his, only to sell a couple of dime bags and a hangul of rocks, or chop shop a couple of cars etc. and he's only slowed down for a day or two. Back to normal with his latest disposable black market pistol in pocket.

Even if the intent is noble and worthy, the tattle tale vengeance factor still exists. I doubt there is anyone in office who is capable of writing a good version of a RF law that's easy enough to interpret at the point where it really matters.
At booking and pre trial hearings.
Before an innocent is forced into a cell and forced to pay thousands of dollars while an ex or ahole neighbor can laugh at the grief they caused.

That's my point. Red Flag laws are feel-good legislation that take people's rights.

[blackhawknj]

Yes, they're the equivalent of denouncing someone as a Communist in Nazi Germany or a counterrevolutionary in Mao's Cina.