Ukraine is building its own Iron Dome.

[rayg]

The 'Sky Project' initiative, with help from a US company, aims to modernize Ukraine's air-defense system

A U.S. company is helping Ukraine build a missile defense system ? its own version of Israel's Iron Dome ? to prevent Russian rockets from striking its populace.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-is-building-its-own-iron-dome-us-company-is-key

[Art]

Missile defense, while important, is not The Ukraine's biggest need.

The Russian maneuver forces, armor and infantry have been disappointing. Their artillery has not. They have more artillery, both self propelled and towed in reserve than the Ukrainians have in their complete inventory. They also have a lot more ammunition. The Russian artillery has been very well handled. In the war in the east, which is the one that matters right now the Russians are expending a lot more rounds than the Ukrainians and are putting "steel on target." There have been reports that in addition to being slowly pushed back the Ukrainians are suffering 400 casualties a day. If that's true it isn't sustainable.

The US is at the point now of deciding whether to win the war or "look good losing."

[togor]

Who is to say Russia's expenditure rate on artillery is sustainable. Ukraine has the possibility of resupply from the West, modern precision munitions that require lower rates of expenditure to achieve the necessary tactical result. Russia on the other hand is burning through their stocks of cold war era munitions using a brute force approach, and it's unclear where they go after they reach bottom.

[Art]

Who is to say Russia's expenditure rate on artillery is sustainable. Ukraine has the possibility of resupply from the West, modern precision munitions that require lower rates of expenditure to achieve the necessary tactical result. Russia on the other hand is burning through their stocks of cold war era munitions using a brute force approach, and it's unclear where they go after they reach bottom.

It is possible that the Russians could expend enough ammunition to cause a shortfall. They've already dug deep into their stocks of precision guided munitions.

It could also be true that Russian ordnance plants can make up the shortfall of, lets say, 152mm projectiles. These are not high tech and shortages of things like semi conductors won't affect them. Also, remember, the Russians never seem to throw stuff away, Their current inventory is 391 152 mm towed howitzers in service with 1,700 in reserve. We don't know how much ammunition they have on hand for these guns but my money is a lot.

The Ukrainian problem is more immediate. They have now expended nearly all of com bloc era ordnance taking their Com Bloc artillery out of action, and are almost completely dependent on guns and ammunition from the west. Right now they are expending about 6,000 rounds of artillery ammo a day, almost all NATO supplied. NATO is not known for building up huge stocks of anything and they are going to feel the pinch soon if they don't already.

[togor]

What comes after a "maximum effort" is one of the interesting features of a war. By all accounts Russia is gaining ground, but they are chewing through men and material at a significant rate. And they still don't have an exit strategy other than "the West loses heart and quits".

Inconceivable to me personally that we would let Russia off the hook, so long as the Ukrainians want to keep the fight, but there are those, even here, who regard Putin as friend. The same Putin for whom a weakened United States is a cherished goal.

[Art]

What comes after a "maximum effort" is one of the interesting features of a war. By all accounts Russia is gaining ground, but they are chewing through men and material at a significant rate. And they still don't have an exit strategy other than "the West loses heart and quits".

Inconceivable to me personally that we would let Russia off the hook, so long as the Ukrainians want to keep the fight, but there are those, even here, who regard Putin as friend. The same Putin for whom a weakened United States is a cherished goal.

If the west fights a proxy war with Russia in The Ukraine it must fight to win...period. Anything less than victory is not acceptable. That means we have to pay the price in equipping The Ukrainian military. Putin is gambling that the point will come when the west will get tired of pouring vast amounts of money into this war and demand the Ukrainians ask for terms. At that point Putin wins. At the very least he will keep what he has now and turn the Ukraine into a rump state.

We defeated the Soviet Union in proxy wars before and it can be done again with the Russians. All we need is proxies that intend to fight and the willingness to give them what they need.

A start would be to increase the artillery capacity of the Ukrainians from 6,000 rounds a day to 10,000 rounds +.

[barretcreek]

Right now Vlad is looking at two offensive fronts; the one he started in Ukraine and the one he is threatening from Norway down past the Baltic States into Poland. NATO has got him realizing the Northern Front could turn into a defensive line right quick. That could impede his ambition in Ukraine.

[Vern Humphrey]

Right now Vlad is looking at two offensive fronts; the one he started in Ukraine and the one he is threatening from Norway down past the Baltic States into Poland. NATO has got him realizing the Northern Front could turn into a defensive line right quick. That could impede his ambition in Ukraine.

I don't think Putin is capable of realizing that. He's starting to look a lot like Joe Biden -- a narcissist who thinks reality has to adjust itself to conform to his imagination.

And that makes him VERY dangerous!

[Art]

I don't think Putin is capable of realizing that. He's starting to look a lot like Joe Biden -- a narcissist who thinks reality has to adjust itself to conform to his imagination.

And that makes him VERY dangerous!

Yep

If Mussolini had been content with making the trains run on time, and if Hitler had been happy with building the Autobahn and coming up with the idea for the Volkswagen they'd be heroes today. Putin's the same, not content with making sure Russians had TVs, cars and Big Macs he, like Hitler and Mussolini had to pursue his dreams of empire. Unfortunately he's looking just as crazy and has nuclear weapons.

[togor]

Biden is headed to Europe next week to continue to keep the West rallied to the goal.

Somebody here likes to badmouth people by calling them narcissists (not sure he even knows what the word means anymore), but even that person would probably admit to himself (privately) that Biden is keeping his eye on the ball.

And maybe that person even remembers from personal experience that war is messy, that even the best plans go south, and that perseverance is among the most necessary of qualities when in a war.

[lyman]

Biden is headed to Europe next week to continue to keep the West rallied to the goal.

Somebody here likes to badmouth people by calling them narcissists (not sure he even knows what the word means anymore), but even that person would probably admit to himself (privately) that Biden is keeping his eye on the ball.

And maybe that person even remembers from personal experience that war is messy, that even the best plans go south, and that perseverance is among the most necessary of qualities when in a war.

your word salad suggests you are all upset and have your britches all balled cause someone used a personality descriptor for your boi biden,

[Vern Humphrey]

your word salad suggests you are all upset and have your britches all balled cause someone used a personality descriptor for your boi biden,

I can ignore them, but they can't ignore me. It cracks me up.

[togor]

your word salad suggests you are all upset and have your britches all balled cause someone used a personality descriptor for your boi biden,

"Word salad" is a phrase you use when I hit the mark. It's your backhanded way of telling everyone that I'm in the X-ring. So from my perspective, always good to see.

And again I'm on the money--saying anything decent about Biden, pointing out when he's doing something right, is against tribal rules.

A tribe of rule followers, who imagine themselves on the side of individual liberty and freedom of thought. Would be funny except that it's actually pretty damn sad.

[dogtag]

Ukraine is getting boring and too expensive. It's as good as over anyway.
People are more concerned with inflation, gas and food - or the lack of.
The people are suffering but I bet Zelensky hasn't missed a meal.

[rayg]

I see supporting Ukraine as one way of reducing Russia's strong hold on the world! As we see Russia's over all military strength and hence it's threat to the world has been reduced and without any direct threat to us!