Brass butt plate

[Merc]

I heard that a Brass buttplate was a sign that the rifle was issued by the Royal Navy.

I think they look great.

Brass buttplates do dress up the Enfields and a link to the Royal Navy would be interesting. All rifles, regardless of the OEM or country of origin, are built with parts that have a specific purpose. Brass buttplates would be more expensive to produce when compared to steel or alloy buttplates but won't corrode when exposed to moisture or salt air.

There's something else that I noticed about Enfields. I've seen many of them for sale at gun shows and dealers with metal parts coated with a layer of black paint, mostly peeled. My own 1944 No. 4 Mk 1* Savage was painted although 90% or more was gone by the time I bought it several years ago. The 10 round mag had been painted but only the exposed portion. Obviously the purpose of the paint was to retard corrosion. Was that something that the factories did or was it a field modification?

[p246]

Suncorite was first adopted in 1944. It was done over park. The Sten was the first gun it was done on. The No5 mark 1 and later new No 4's were eventually done. Many No4s were refinished in park then Suncorite when FTR ed. As usual with commonwealth factories outside England things tended to happen later but not always.

Suncorite is tough but the original formula was nasty so anyone applying it needed to be fully protected. Several of my FTR ed rifles that saw a lot of use after refurb show a lot of Suncorite wear. I like the look but some don't.

The Brass buttplate was an older design. The alloy Buttplate was a cost saving measure during WW2. Ian Skinnertons book has a pretty detailed explanation of both. The alloy buttplate is supposed to be corrosion resistant also. I haven't tried any of mine in conditions that would prove or disprove that.

[Merc]

Suncorite was first adopted in 1944. It was done over park. The Sten was the first gun it was done on. The No5 mark 1 and later new No 4's were eventually done. Many No4s were refinished in park then Suncorite when FTR ed. As usual with commonwealth factories outside England things tended to happen later but not always.

Suncorite is tough but the original formula was nasty so anyone applying it needed to be fully protected. Several of my FTR ed rifles that saw a lot of use after refurb show a lot of Suncorite wear. I like the look but some don't.

The Brass buttplate was an older design. The alloy Buttplate was a cost saving measure during WW2. Ian Skinnertons book has a pretty detailed explanation of both. The alloy buttplate is supposed to be corrosion resistant also. I haven't tried any of mine in conditions that would prove or disprove that.

Thanks, very informative and sure fills in some blanks. I looked up Suncorite and it looks like it's still available under various names. Must be a very tough chemical. I guess when you live in Britain with all the rain and fog, you get used to taking those extra steps to fight corrosion.

I'll have to pick up a copy of Skinnerton's book to learn more about the Enields. Can you tell me the title?

[p246]

Thanks, very informative and sure fills in some blanks. I looked up Suncorite and it looks like it's still available under various names. Must be a very tough chemical. I guess when you live in Britain with all the rain and fog, you get used to taking those extra steps to fight corrosion.

I'll have to pick up a copy of Skinnerton's book to learn more about the Enields. Can you tell me the title?

The British Service Lee. There is a first edition and a 2nd. I have both. The 2nd has much better pics but the info is about the same. If you can find either it will be more than you can ever remember. If you go to milsurps.com Peter Laidler has numerous articles from the armorers side of British Service rifles, SMGs, and Bren. They are a very good read also.

The original Suncorite had a three digit number behind it. I can't remember the exact number. Maybe JB or one of the other Enfield guys remember. The Suncorite you can buy now is not the same formula. It's much more environmentally friendly. The original mix was nasty stuff when sprayed, so the person applying it should have a respirator on.

[Merc]

I looked around on Amazon.com for Skennerton's "The Broad Arrow" and found a used copy for $1600.

[p246]

I looked around on Amazon.com for Skennerton's "The Broad Arrow" and found a used copy for $1600.

I didn't buy that one either.....Must be one hell of a book

[JB White]

I heard that a Brass buttplate was a sign that the rifle was issued by the Royal Navy.

I think they look great.

Whoever told you that was blowing smoke to cover their lackings in things Enfield. Poor sod probably grew up playing connect the dots on a tablecloth.

The reason behind the alloy plates is very simple. During times of war, base metals such as brass, nickel, copper etc suddenly become precious towards the war effort. WW2 was a classic example. Brass was needed elsewhere and the war created a shortage.

I don't recall the Suncorite number. Although I jotted it down several times it never made it into my notes. The formula is highly carcinogenic and we can't buy it anymore. The closest thing available is the Suncorite formula used on black pipe. Most commonly seen on non potable water supplies such as fire sprinkler systems.

[JB White]

The broad arrow for $1600?? I'll sell you a copy for $160 and I will be ripping you off big time. Methinks $16 for a well used dogeared copy is more like it.

Unless you were looking at an autographed hard cover? Keep in mind Ian Skennerton has probably signed more autographs than MLB players and NASCAR drivers combined

[Merc]

JB, Seeing is believing. Check out www.amazon.com and type in "Ian Skennerton The Broad Arrow." I left the seller a comment "Are you serious?"

[JB White]

I looked there and on abebooks. Holy Crapoli! It's a great book but it isn't the Gutenberg Bible.
That Amazon seller set his price in the middle. That's Crazy!
Did you look on Skennerton.com? Search under out of print titles. It's still listed there.

[JB White]

Keep looking. If worse comes to worse..probably isnt legal... You may need to borrow and photocopy. Won't be cheap but it will be a fraction of what they are gouging for.

[Merc]

I looked there and on abebooks. Holy Crapoli! It's a great book but it isn't the Gutenberg Bible.
That Amazon seller set his price in the middle. That's Crazy!
Did you look on Skennerton.com? Search under out of print titles. It's still listed there.

JB, It's crazy alright. Must be hugh demand for the book that drives the price that high, so make sure you keep your copy in the gun safe. I'd rather spend the money on a M1903 or possibly a M1.

[p246]

The broad arrow for $1600?? I'll sell you a copy for $160 and I will be ripping you off big time. Methinks $16 for a well used dogeared copy is more like it.

Unless you were looking at an autographed hard cover? Keep in mind Ian Skennerton has probably signed more autographs than MLB players and NASCAR drivers combined

One of my books is signed by Skinnerton. I heard he loved to sign them at gun shows.

[Alan De Enfield]

Here are a few photo of my 1944 Savage No. 4. The "51" is right above the serial number on the wrist band. I assume "VNS" and "B" are inspector marks.

VNS is a manufacturers mark (Viners Ltd Sheffield UK - manufacturers of cutlery in peace time)

Edit to add : Whooops - I missed a page, I see it has already been answered.