Lithgow stock repair

[p246]

So just starting a running thread on the subject of a Lithgow Coachwood stock I need to fix. I plan to update the thread as I go step by step. I claim no expert status just like to work on my own stuff. I'll post the plan and if you have a better idea let me know I have thick skin.

Back story 1941 Lithgow rebuilt in 1945 and given a new barrel. Stock and hadguard appear to match in wear but forwood looks much less abused. The forward had a crack on right side that had been fixed with two brass pins (IMO this fix is non military). This is a rifle I shoot and the last session it cracked on the left side along the wood grain. I need to fix the left crack and I want to improve the fix on the right side. All without screwing up my fit on the gun as it was shooting well. Pics below, on post two I'all post my current plan. IMG_1498.jpgIMG_1499.jpgIMG_1500.jpg

[p246]

First I need to get the oil off so glue will stick. I plan to immerse it in acetone for one hour. Pull it and let it air dry for a couple days. Spread left crack and work Tite Bond III into it, clamp it up and let it dry. On the right side same but spreading crack will not be possible. Once dry drill for an Oak peg in the back of the left crack and center of right. Finish pegs to match wood level. I''m thinking I should cut dutchmans at the end of each crack to ensure they do not walk but this might be overkill. Once fitted I'll submit to peer pressure and refinish it with raw Linseed oil cut with turpentine. The RLO will be stand Oil bought at a hobby shop. Any input before I jump in is welcome.

[JB White]

Going with RLO means you've submitted to peer pressure from one segment of the community.

Get yourself a little chunk of coachwood. Old sporterized stocks are an excellent source. Aside from cutting them up to make patches, the smaller cutoffs can be used to produce coachwood sawdust. Handy for stopping cracks from traveling further. Drill a small hole at the very end of the crack and make up a "sawdust putty" as a filler. This is where BLO comes in handy because it does harden to a point where the "plug" will become almost invisible. You may not be able to see the very end of the crack, so use a little mineral spirits to highlight the grain.

When pinning a crack as you have done, I have always predrilled, then at times tapped the hole in the wood while clamped. That way when I install my homemade threaded rod it will grab without spreading apart the grain.
If you wish to hide the rod, you can drill the top slightly below the surface. That's where the sawdust putty and BLO comes in handy again.

BTW, I feel oak to be a terrible wood for stock work. Other hardwoods have tighter grain and will color to match much more readily. Oak is an open grain, tears more easily, and darkens to black when used as a dowel.

[p246]

Thanks JB, which hardwood dowel do you suggest. Oak is just any easy hardwood to find here. White Pine being the other one, but not a hard wood. (EDIT: I FOUND A LOCAL SOURE FOR HARDWOOD MAPLE DOWEL WOULD THAT WORK BETTER)

The two pins someone else used on the right side either were not pre drilled or were way to small which is why it cracked again where they were inserted. I'd like to pull them drill and use my own pin, but pulling them might be an issue.

I do have a coachwood sporter stock. I was going to use it for my Dutchman wood slivers. I was going with a Dutchman approach as it's a traditional way they were fixed in the military. Your method is much less time consuming. I don't know which is stronger. I have plenty of time for this project, but only want to do it once.

I figured the RLO finish would just be a good discussion,

[JB White]

Maple is a much better alternative than oak IMHO. I've used the 'pinhole' method to stop a crack from traveling when I didn't want to see a patchwork on the side of an otherwise nice looking rifle. If you feel as though you can exactly duplicate a proper armorers repair then it's up to you. Just don't use an India method on an Australian arm, or a US type of repair on a British arm. I'm sure you know the difference by now, so let's not give the forgers something else to work with eh?
A repair is a repair. Something we can do to preserve without being overly intrusive. I tended to use the larger repairs when something was actually missing and needed putting back to be functional. ie. the chunks sometimes missing from along side the triggerguard, or a kerf repair to save an original and matching handguard.

For the record, is the oak dowel from your local store actually oak, or is it ash? Ash resembles oak once finished. That's why much packaged decorative work, such as finials, sold as oak are really ash. Ash turns better without tearing out.

[p246]

Thanks for the input. This dowel is actually Oak, there is a local cabinet repair guy I got it from. He also has hard maple, just didn't ask. Your pin hole method or hiding brass wire screw under plug probably makes more sense on these cracks. The right side does not appear to be glued just pinned. I'm going to try and gently spread it and see if the brass pins will stand up to be pulled. If they were just cut off brass nails there is a chance. If true wire screws or what ever they are called then they won't. At that point I might try to set them deep enough to drill and plug. The right side was fixed by bubba. Does anyone marked there stock as repaired in modern times for ethical reasons. I thought about putting a note in the butt trap, but someone could just throw it away.

[JB White]

I often forgot to do this, but on most occasions I just penciled a date and my initials inside the forend or under the handguard. Later I used a fine point Sharpie. If I did a restoration I made sure to do it in several locations including beneath the buttplate.
So, if you ever discover the initials JBW with a US type date format...odds are it might have been me.
For the record, I never passed one off as original, nor did I ever sell one at the same price as original. Never had a problem selling so long as I was honest about it. Had a good number tell me thanks and not buy, but the next one who came along didn't seem to mind.
Reminded myself of the time I sold a repro P'03 bayonet frog. The buyer INSISTED it was the real deal. Even after I insisted that I was the one who made it! I simply copied another repro. Showed him my own markings! He walked off thinking he had stolen it. There are some crazies out there...but they have money.

[p246]

Nice story. I like your idea so I'll mark the inside of the stock in a few places, and do the same to my others I've fixed. I have not sold any, probably won't for years. Kids are interested in American stuff but not the L.E.s....yet. If that holds in 30 years or so I'll pass them on to next guy.

No luck getting bubba pins out. I can spread it but pins don't work out. I'all probably glue it up tight and dowel it between pins and just leave them where they are. I guess they at least might add some side to side support but that's it.

[p246]

Out of the acetone. Now to let is air dry a couple days.IMG_1501.jpgIMG_1502.jpg

[bigedp51]

Going with RLO means you've submitted to peer pressure from one segment of the community.

He didn't give in, stand oil is actual boiled linseed oil. So he gave into you or else didn't do his homework.


Stand Oil, manufactured by heating a pure refined linseed oil, is a heavy oil that wets pigments well.

Stand oil is linseed oil that has been polymerized by heating. It is thicker than cold pressed or alkalai refined oils, and has almost no tendency to yellow. It is useful for glazing, and helps to eliminate brush marks. AP non-toxic.



Oil Painting Mediums

http://www.dickblick.com/categories/oilmediums/#linseedanddryingoils

[JB White]

Talk about not doing homework?

True Raw Linseed oil is merely oil which has been warmed and allowed to stand to remove the sediments.
Refined Linseed Oil (which is what people actually use as "RLO" has also been treated with acid to expedite the removal of those same impurities. If your RLO has a yellowish/light amber hue to it then it's RLO as in 'refined'.

BLO (which is not really boiled) has been refined similar to RLO (refined) but has the addition of driers to form a thicker barrier once cured.

Stand Oil is a more refined Linseed Oil which as you noted has been heated similar to RAW to thicken. However the choice of driers and thinners are up to the user and his/her choice of application. Most artists do not use driers mixed with their paints as it does not yellow/patina. However house painters and some woodworkers do.


Where the difference in opinions lie is in what's original, what is correct, and what is practical for today.

Originally the rifle stocks were dipped into vats of heated oil then swung off on racks to a climate controlled drying room. We no longer have that luxury of heated vats and drying rooms, especially in our homes. Since old correspondence has surfaced mentioning the use of 'boiled oil' for maintenance, many (such as myself) choose to continue that regimen. Also, since our stocks were originally soaked in "RLO" it's already in there...to an extent at least.
For penetration we dilute our BLO allowing it to wick into the wood fibers. Once it thickens (let's call it..dries) it then begins to give us back that patina we all adore. It also is less likely to "sweat" in our hands and onto our clothes for the next few years when we are shooting in direct sunlight.

Stand oil is something relatively new for surplus collectors. It's said that it 'dries' much slower and doesn't age, since its use is geared more towards art than rifle stocks. If it's diluted and/or has driers added by its user (Jap drier etc.)..I don't know. Mostly because until recently it hasn't been used all that much on our end and....it's been shared by the Purist/RLO crowd as being better than the refined linseed oil. Hence my comment to P246 (not to you) and the little "winking smiley face" that you obviously missed.

[bigedp51]

Stand oil is actual boiled linseed oil heated to 300 degrees and when heated it is polymerized and forms long molectular chains and becomes thicker.

Todays fake BLO is linseed oil with japan drier added and thickening agents.

Heated or thinned raw Linseed oil soaks deeper into the wood than any form of BLO that is designed as a faster drying surface application.

And my point being raw linseed oil is what was used on our American and British military small arms and any form of BLO was never used.

Pure raw linseed oil is non-toxic and can be applied bare handed without wearing protective gloves.

I do not care if you put whale snot on your stocks, I'm just telling everyone the military used raw linseed oil and never used BLO.

The principle behind raw linseed oil is the same as building a wooded canoe. Raw linseed oil is applied until the wood will not absorb any more then varnish is applied to the surface. The raw linseed oil prevents wood shrinkage and water leakage and the varnish is a protective outer coating.

Bottom line, the military used raw linseed oil and never used BLO for a reason. And the use of BLO is nothing more than a Internet myth.

And truth be told my refinished shooter Enfields and M1 rifles were treated like a canoe, 75% military with a 25% non-military protective outer coating.

[p246]

Stand Oil is what I happen to have, the peer pressure comment was apparently a failed attempt at humor. I know it's not the same as the original Raw Linseed Oil. However it is close enough for me and does not turn color with age. The stock repair wo't be original either. For one modern glues such as tite bond III did not exist. The stand Oil finish is simply picked for this stock because I actually hunt white tail with it. BLO can be a little difficult to get the "sheen" out of. Once again this is a hobby for me and I'm sure there are plenty who could knock BLO sheen down but I struggle with that. I could have picked tung oil to but just decided to go stand oil this time. Maybe you can do a write up refinishing a stock with true RLO. I might do it one day, butI'm hoping my stuff don't crack for a while.

Edit: I will also add that many manufacturers advertise their RLO as being the real deal when it's actually refined some. It's gotten to the point one must actually call the manufacturer and ask.

[bigedp51]

Stand Oil is what I happen to have, the peer pressure comment was apparently a failed attempt at humor. I know it's not the same as the original Raw Linseed Oil. However it is close enough for me and does not turn color with age. The stock repair wo't be original either. For one modern glues such as tite bond III did not exist. The stand Oil finish is simply picked for this stock because I actually hunt white tail with it. BLO can be a little difficult to get the "sheen" out of. Once again this is a hobby for me and I'm sure there are plenty who could knock BLO sheen down but I struggle with that. I could have picked tung oil to but just decided to go stand oil this time. Maybe you can do a write up refinishing a stock with true RLO. I might do it one day, butI'm hoping my stuff don't crack for a while.

I wrote many postings on types of linseed oil in the past and posted photos of the different types of oils found in hobby stores that sold oil painting supplies applied to a butt stock.
The peer pressure comment made by Mr. White is because we have "discussed" BLO and RLO hundreds of times.

I sold off the majority of my milsurp rifles and bought new rifles that I could put scopes on for my chronologically gifted eyesight.

At one time I had the only and largest Enfield book and manual stickys anywhere on the Internet. I was accused of breaking copyright laws and both stickys were shut down. The strange thing is everything I had in my stickys is now at milsurps.com and not breaking any copyright laws. And Badger banned me from his website for posting a photo at another website and said I was violating copyright laws. Its amazing what Steve Ridgwell at .303british.com and Badger did at milsurps to control what I was giving away for free.

I don't care what you put on your stocks, I'm just tell you what the military used and it was non-toxic and rubbed on by hand.

[p246]

I wrote many postings on types of linseed oil in the past and posted photos of the different types of oils found in hobby stores that sold oil painting supplies applied to a butt stock.
The peer pressure comment made by Mr. White is because we have "discussed" BLO and RLO hundreds of times.

I sold off the majority of my milsurp rifles and bought new rifles that I could put scopes on for my chronologically gifted eyesight.

At one time I had the only and largest Enfield book and manual stickys anywhere on the Internet. I was accused of breaking copyright laws and both stickys were shut down. The strange thing is everything I had in my stickys is now at milsurps.com and not breaking any copyright laws. And Badger banned me from his website for posting a photo at another website and said I was violating copyright laws. Its amazing what Steve Ridgwell at .303british.com and Badger did at milsurps to control what I was giving away for free.

I don't care what you put on your stocks, I'm just tell you what the military used and it was non-toxic and rubbed on by hand.

Only joining milsurps recently I have no knowledge of that and am sorry there was that kind of drama. The cold pressed Linseed oil, refined Linseed oil, BLO debate will go on. My use of stand Oil is me simply raiding the wife's art supplies. If I had cold pressed on hand I wouldn't be against using it. So I acknowledge there are more traditional methods of RLO. Having said that I don't want to get sidetracked. If one wants to look up the cold pressed Linseed oils and different grades of turpentine google/bing will bring up a lot of information.