Ishapore Enfield 2A1

[Brad in Idaho]

Thanks for that information Alan. Even though I don't understand a lot of the terminology, I do understand my .308 headspace gauges are not correct for this rifle. Forster lists NATO 7.62 headspace gauges that are 1.6355" plus .0003" minus zero (minimum chamber length) and 1.6455" plus Zero minus .0003" (maximum chamber length). I guess I could get the maximum gauge anyway.
One of the problems I'm going to have is that there are few gunsmiths around here, and the ones there are don't deal with old military rifles. Even if I located a smith competent to check the rifle out, the cost would probably be more than the value of the rifle with shipping and such.

[kcw]

Thanks JB. I just tried another experiment. I had some once fired RG brass that I fired in my other 2A1 a couple of weeks ago. I inserted this fired brass in my other 2A1, and it had to be pushed in the last little bit by the bolt, BUT the extractor engaged it OK, and it extracted and ejected normally. Then I tried one of the once fired brass from the 2A1 with the problem in this other rifle, and it had the same problem as in the problem rifle. It didn't go in freely as far as the other spent brass, and the bolt had to be hammered on to extract the brass. When the brass was extracted, it had the same marks on it as in the 3rd picture. It appears the brass is expanding more in the chamber of the problem rifle than in the other one, making extraction difficult. I will try polishing the chamber as you describe and see if it helps. BTW I don't think I'll fire reloads in these rifles.

your experiment would convince me to look at a headspace issue. The fact that the bolt/receiver numbers don't match lends credence to that view in my opinion. I'm a bit confused too by Mr. Laidler's terminology. My understanding of the headspacing procedure for the #1 303 Enfield was that the bolt head length was trimmed in a jig to obtain proper headspace on a certain rifle. I had #1 with a mismatched bolt with horrific headspace, plus the bolt head was filed at a considerable angle! I managed to purchase a NOS bolt head which 1st proved to be a bit tight. I free hand filed about .005 off the bolt face, adjusted the firing pin for protrusion, and it's worked fine ever since, nice tight headspace. I can't figure out from Mr.Laidler's offering if that's how the 2A's were also headspaced. Are the length of the two boltheads on your rifles of the same length, or have they been independently "adjusted"? I guess my point is, would/could a NOS bolt head set things right in the problem rifle?

[Alan De Enfield]

The big difference is that 303 is a rimmed cartridge and the HS is measured between the back-end of the barrel and the front end of the bolt head. 7.62 is measured from a point somewhere on the taper of the case - I'll let Peter explain it

Anyone for 7.62mm CHS?
Posted By: Peter Laidler
Date: Tues 6 May 2008 11:36 am
Now for the biggie, the 7.62’s. The basic principle of headspacing hasn’t changed here but the practicalities have. Whereas before, on our rimmed .303” rifles we measured the GO NO-GO distance between the front face of the bolt and the rear face of the barrel, it’s all changed for the rimless 7.62mm NATO caliber rifles. Now we have to measure from the front face of the bolt to the cartridge seating at the neck. Well, that’s all pretty clear then ….., except that the neck is tapered so where EXACTLY on that neck do you take your GO, 1.628” and NO-GO 1.635 measurement from? Even if I told you it’d make no difference whatsoever because without the specialist measuring and more importantly, the calibration equipment, you’d still be none the wiser. The trouble with this is that you’ve got to take the word of the manufacturer of the gauge. And exactly where does HE take HIS measurement from but more importantly, WHO does he get them from. geting difficult isn't it?

Let me give you an example. My GO gauge gives you a close/GO reading of 1.628 but Bloggs & Co gauge may give you a GO reading of 1.575” for the same 7.62mm caliber. How can there be a difference of .053” between the two when they are identical? Well, it’s simple really. Our STANAG gauges are measured from one diameter around the neck while Bloggs & Co are taken from a different but larger diameter .053” further to the rear! That is really all I want to say about that.

The next obvious question for all you enthusiasts is where can I get a set of these gauges and the true answer is that I don’t know!

The fact remains that there are MANY gauges for all manner of 7.62mm rifles and machine guns ranging from the little bolt action L8’s right through to the L- whatever it is ferocious mini gun. And there are equally MANY for different lines of repair and functions, ranging from 1.622” to 1.648”. ............................................

[Brad in Idaho]

Hooray! After doing some contortions and with the help of a dental mirror and a couple of dental picks, I found the burr in the chamber of this rifle. It was just inside the chamber by the extractor cut (you were right Rock). It wasn't much, but was enough to cause the problem. With the help of a small, fine half round file I knocked it down. Then I cleaned the chamber with some JB bore paste as JB White suggested, and that seems to have done the trick. I inserted a few spent casings in the chamber, and each was extracted properly, and no more scratches on the brass. This one will get another trip to the range soon. THANKS to all for the help and suggestions, they are much appreciated.

Rifle as it looks now.

[MJ1]

Never a dull moment around here. Good reading and comments. I missed the whole 2A thing. I got distracted. Nice the OP looked deeper before hanging the rifle on the wall. Love a good save.

[JB White]

I'm happy for you too. Glad it worked out.

[Brad in Idaho]

Last on this subject...i promise.

Took the Ishy Enfield back out to the range today. Fired some British Surplus NATO spec Radway Green (85). Same stuff I tried before that it wouldn't extract. Well the deburring of the chamber is a success. It fed, fired, and extracted all 20 rounds without a hiccup. The rifle has a very light trigger, and it shot very well considering surplus ammo, and my old eyes. Here's the SR1 target I shot from 100yds. The ones furthest right are before I adjusted the sight. I claim flyers for the ones to the left...



The brass looks OK to me except for the extractor rim being brighter than anything else. Any ideas what causes this? Is it anything to be alarmed about? I did stick a bent paper clip into the case, and couldn't detect any signs of case head separation. (see pic below)



I'm really happy about how this rifle shoots. Thanks to all who contributed their thoughts and suggestions to this thread.

[MJ1]

#1