Van Orden Winchester 70 Sniper

[da gimp]

Friend belonged to the Happy Valley Rod & Gun Club, have enjoyed both his & your narratives.

da gimp

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Thanks, gimp.
To be honest, I was on a picnic compared to the experiences of some of the people I know. I just thought I was tough, they really were. I heard a good "shakes" story today. That is when you get scared so badly, you shake uncontrolably after the event is over (been there and done that). Usually occurs after being surprised and coming close to death as a result. It took me a lot of years to realize it was a pretty common experience among Marines in combat, and kinda funny in a way amongst those who have had that experience. Someone should collect all the "shakes" stories and publish them.

Jim
*********************
Bsully,
After speaking to Maj. Jim Land, I cannot disagree with anything you said. It may be more interesting than you indicated. I need to bone up on my Vietnam stuff, as I know little about an era in which I played an active part. I am a better man for your attempt to educate a hard headed old Marine. Thanks.

Jim

[da gimp]

Ya got class Jimmy, it takes a man...............


da gimp

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Thank you, gimp.

Jim

[Bsully]

Jim,
Glad you were able to confirm with Maj. Land. The subject is actually quite interesting and even includes some iron sighted standard configuration 70s making confirmed 1000 yd kills. I have no service to my credit. I grew up an AF Brat, attended a small school in Lexington, VA, some ROTC and an allocated slot but ended up with no commitment due to spending every summer in summer school, know about being hard headed. Thanks for the concern but just vacation time, worst thing is I now need a vacation to recoup from vacation. Please note the "no one special" was intended as sarcasm, now that all of this is irrelevant.
Sully

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Sully,

I know Lexington well. I have a good friend who lives there (up in the mountains). I went up to see the women's barrel racing championship a couple of years ago, and I saw hundreds of fine looking females running hard. The esquestrian facilty at Lexington is second to known in the country. Of course the Army made Lexington a center of horse jumping prior to WWII. They had one horse that was spectacular, but I can't remember his name right now. Went by W&L to visit Lee's desk again. I like Lexington.

By the way, I hope to be firing one of the original 70's at Camp LeJeune in a couple of weeks. I will let you know how things go.

Jim

[1shot]

Gents:

I have been away for a while. When I started this topic I indicated that I had two Winchester 70 Van Orden sniper rifles. I have posted pictures of these rifles at: http://www.jouster.com/forums/album.php?albumid=84

Enjoy!

1shot

[topaz201]

1shot:

Thanks for sharing pictures of your rifles. The Van Orden sniper on the bottom is one of the best I have ever seen.

TP

[fkienast]

Charlie Lauer

The last time I saw Charlie Lauer he was building M-1As and doing a little gunsmithing at Jacksonville, NC. I met him when I was needing some help on a commercial SA M-1. With his help the problem was resolved with SA.

[Dan in NY]

1shot....a question...

Can I ask to see a picture of the barrel address on those two beautiful rifles?...I have both of Senich's books, and he has some great pics, but one he hasn't included is the barrel address on these Model 70 snipers. Was wondering if they are USMC replaced and unmarked? or do they possess the whole factory Winchester, New Haven, CT, etc, etc, address?

Many thanks and I enjoyed seeing those two pieces of American history..


Dan

[1shot]

1shot....a question...

Can I ask to see a picture of the barrel address on those two beautiful rifles?...I have both of Senich's books, and he has some great pics, but one he hasn't included is the barrel address on these Model 70 snipers. Was wondering if they are USMC replaced and unmarked? or do they possess the whole factory Winchester, New Haven, CT, etc, etc, address?

Many thanks and I enjoyed seeing those two pieces of American history..


Dan

Hi Dan:

Sorry I couldnt get back you sooner. We were camping over the weekend. I looked at both of the Van Orden snipers. Both barrels have the complete factory address on them.
I will try and get pictures out to you this week.

Regards,

1shot

[Gus Fisher]

Charlie Lauer was a Master Gunnery Sergeant on THE USMC (summer) Rifle Team when I joined it as a Sergeant and the Junior RTE Armorer in 1975. He was not an RTE Armorer, but his background was as a standard Infantry Weapons Repairman MOS 2111 before he became an Ordnance Chief. I know, I asked him during that period because I found out he had done some of what we would normally think of as RTE or MOS 2112 work on the side. I'm sorry I don't know anything about him working on Model 70's though.

I also seem to recall Jim Land saying they bought some better quality scopes from the PX on Okinawa during VN for use there. I am not sure if the Marines bought them on their own or if the Corps paid for them.

Also, the redfield 3 x9 's the Corps issued in VN came both in black and OD colors. I know, we still had some of both at the RTE Shop in the early 80's.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

[QUOTE=Gus Fisher;161567I also seem to recall Jim Land saying they bought some better quality scopes from the PX on Okinawa during VN for use there. I am not sure if the Marines bought them on their own or if the Corps paid for them. Also, the redfield 3 x9 's the Corps issued in VN came both in black and OD colors. I know, we still had some of both at the RTE Shop in the early 80's.[/QUOTE]

Jim called me last week and I missed the call. I will call him back and ask. I am curious anyway. He told me the whole story once before, but I forget things now. If I recall correctly, he told me they (USMC) bought every good scope they could find in the local PX and some place off base. I don't recall him ever saying anything about buying cheap scopes, as I think they were looking for quality. They did acquire all the remaining Unertls. Carlos put his in a hotbox at night.

Have we ever met, Gus? I appreciate all your posts.

Semper Fi,
Jim Tarleton

[Gus Fisher]

Jim,

I don't know if we have ever met or not. I enlisted at age 17 on the Delayed Entry Program while I was a Senior in High School in 1971 and went to boot Camp 6 days after my 18th birthday. I enlisted for the Ground Group Guarantee because I wanted to be a 2112 and had to start as a 2111. After my training on Pendleton, I did a year in an Armory on Okinawa (which included a short trip to destroy a base in Cambodia). I was meritoriously pomoted to Sergeant with a total of 20 months on active duty. I applied for and was accepted to go the the RTE Shop. I got there in November 1973. That's where I met my lifelong friend, MSgt Michael Gingher USMCR (recently deceased). Mike and I had a house out in town and he got me into being a Block Official for NRA Highpower and Pistol matches all the way up to one time I was the Match Director for a Highpower Regional Rifle Match. I met Jim Land for the first time when he was a Major and shooting in those NRA Pistol Matches. After my summer with THE Marine Corps Rifle Team, I was drug kicking and screaming out on Recruiting duty for over four years. I returned to the RTE Shop in 1980. I served in various positions including being the Instructor of OJT's (Apprenticeship Instructor) to being the NCOIC of the NM Rifle Rebuild section. I was transfered to Edson Range in 1988 and was there about two years before I was promoted to MSgt and sent to Okinawa to be the NCOIC of the Infantry Weapons Repair Shop and then the Maintenance Chief for all of Ordnance Maintenance Company operations. I then came back to 1st Marine Division and was the Ordnance Officer for 2/11 for a little over a year before I was transfered up to Division HQ as the Divison Ordnance Chief and also eventurally filled the position of the Assistant Division Ordnance Officer. I came back to the RTE Shop as the NCOIC in Dec 1994 until I retired in November 1997.

Over the years I have known folks in all sorts of shooting. Mike and I competed in Black Powder competitions. I reenacted many different time periods from French and Indian War through the UnCivil War. Frank Higginson got me started doing BP gunsmithing in the early 70's at the NSSA spring and fall national championships in 1974 and I did that over the years for about 23 years all told. I was the Team Armourer to the USIMLT and accompanied the team to two world championships in Wedgnock, UK. Jim Land went on one of those trips as the Team Captain, BTW.

I have worked a few personal guns for Jim and his son over the years, but most have been BP guns, though a couple have been modern ones. I consider myself very fortunate for having known him.

[Gus Fisher]

BTW Jim,

Dempsey Damron was the NCOIC of the Rifle Team Armorers in 1975 along with Ted Hollabaugh, who took over as NCOIC not long after Camp Perry. Mike Giingher was the other Armorer. Bill Brown was the "Bolt Gun" Armorer for the Teams and he retired about a year later. Maybe you ran across some of them in VN?