Cast bullets in my sporter

[p246]

That's madenshooter. I'm using a few Lee molds with flat noses but what to try a spitzer mold

[madsenshooter]

If you're looking for high velocity, skip the Squibb bullet. Lyman's 311413, Belding and Mull 311168 and other brands had their version too. Something about the balance of that bullet, it won't stabilize above 1600fps no matter what tricks you may try. That bullet has likely made more people give up on cast spitzers than any other.

[p246]

Yeah I don't push the flat nose stuff real fast but wanted to find a spitzer to push over 2000 with a gas check. I'll look at Lymans 311413. Thanks for bringing that point up.

[psteinmayer]

To be honest, I'm loading my rounds with 19 grains of Accurate 5744 and a CCI standard 200 primer. My OAL is 3.14. I'm only pushing around 1600 FPS in these!

Here's a picture of one of my loads, along with a bullet.

[madsenshooter]

However, the bullet retains a fair degree of accuracy up to at least 2150fps, about as fast as you're safely going to get one going out of a Krag. You need to understand, these aren't cast of WW or waste alloy. I wouldn't attempt over 2000fps with anything less than linotype. I am using a copper toughened alloy in my post about duplicating the 1907 Palma round, I had to keep the percentage of Pb high to get the weight I needed. Otherwise, I'd be using the same alloy I cast Paul's bullets of, and they'd weigh around 190gr. Paul's just starting, he hasn't had time to work up the ladder and find the accuracy hotspot.

[p246]

Well I've been casting for pistol and 45-70 a while. 30-06 but only flat nose out of 50% WW and 50% lead. Gas checked. They are ran in a M1917 which chronos at 1850 or one off two03A3,s, same loads run just shy of 1800 in those. These are used strickly for brush hunting white tail and thump real good. However I've always wanted to work up a spitzer load. I don't have any Linotype but have used some of the pre mixed hard tack from Midway to get some BHN up to the 25 mark per my Lee Hardness tester. Now I need a mold and some time for ladder testing. Oh out of 5744 so need more of that. If Paul's just getting started he's way ahead of the curve. I've seen many a man spinning their wheels a long time trying to get a recipe to work. Wrong mix wrong size, however once you find the right recipe its amazing how accurate a cast projectile can be out of modern rifles. I see you posting on castboolits. Great website where I've learned most of what I know. Keep up the good work Paul. Look forward to seeing that target with cast sniper written in corner.

[Smokechaser]

psteinmayer, thanks for the extra pictures. I'm preparing my stock for bedding right now.
Also, I have a bunch of cast 160gr flat nose/gas check bullets that I used to load for a 30-30. I know they are a little light for the Krag, but will they work ok for some plinking and/or armadillos? If so, any load suggestions? I have plenty 4895 & 4831. Thanks.

[madsenshooter]

4895 will work good, you can reduce it for cast bullets no problem. I save the slow burners like 4831 for higher velocity loads. Start around 26.5gr or so of 4895 and work up. Some use a tuft of dacron on top of the powder to keep it back against the primer, I haven't worked with that much. Seat the bullet out as near the rifling as you can, with that weight there won't be much of it in the neck.

[Smokechaser]

Thanks. I figured I would need to seat bullets out quite a bit to get them close to the riflings. I've never used case fillers like Dacron either, I wonder if a piece of cotton ball would work, or some dryer lint(I have lots of that!).

[Parashooter]

An advantage of Dacron fluff is that it melts/burns to very low volume at fairly low temperature. Put a match to pinch of it and you'll see. This could be important in bottlenecked cases where less volatile fillers can compress into something of an obstruction as they funnel into the neck. Personally, I avoid fillers of any kind in such cases, reserving them for low-density loads in cartridges with little or no bottleneck.

Anyone experimenting with reduced loads should keep aware that dense, progressive powders like 4895 don't really burn well at low pressure. Below are QuickLOAD estimates for 4895 and Blue Dot in a range of loads running from ~1500 to ~2000 fps. Note how the "Prop.Burnt" percentage for 4895 goes up as charge, pressure, and velocity increase - while the faster, double-base Blue Dot burns completely over the entire range.

Cartridge : .30-40 Krag
Bullet : .308, 202, LYM LRN GC 311299
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.089 inch or 78.46 mm
Barrel Length : 30.0 inch or 762.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1 gr. of nominal charge.

Step Fill% Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt%

-20.0 53 24.00 1531 1067 12024 3196 82.2
-16.7 55 25.00 1591 1152 13133 3402 84.5
-13.3 57 26.00 1650 1240 14320 3604 86.6
-10.0 59 27.00 1710 1331 15591 3801 88.6
-06.7 62 28.00 1769 1425 16949 3993 90.4
-03.3 64 29.00 1829 1522 18401 4178 92.1
+00.0 66 30.00 1887 1621 19952 4355 93.6
+03.3 68 31.00 1945 1723 21608 4523 95.0
+06.7 70 32.00 2003 1826 23376 4682 96.2

Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT

Step Fill% Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt%

-22.2 37 14.00 1546 1088 19018 2082 100.0
-16.7 39 15.00 1610 1179 21469 2209 100.0
-11.1 42 16.00 1671 1271 24061 2334 100.0
-05.6 44 17.00 1730 1363 26797 2458 100.0
+00.0 47 18.00 1788 1455 29677 2581 100.0
+05.6 50 19.00 1844 1547 32705 2703 100.0
+11.1 52 20.00 1898 1640 35883 2824 100.0
+16.7 55 21.00 1951 1733 39214 2944 100.0
+22.2 58 22.00 2003 1826 42704 3062 100.0

Unburned powder isn't cost-effective and it's also messy at times - but there's no denying that such inefficient loads sometimes group very well.

It's also worth knowing that it's not raw pressure but velocity in the barrel that's a common source of cast-bullet leading and accuracy problems. For example, a 39000 psi load of Red Dot generating some 1600 fps can be an easy, accurate load with ordinary cast bullets, while the same pressure with 4895, at about 2400 fps, requires a lot of care even with super-hard cast bullets.

[Smokechaser]

Thanks for the case filler explanation Parashooter, I've never had a reason to use any. I figured it could cause a problem with bottle necked cases.

[madsenshooter]

Yea, appreciate it Parashooter. As you know BD is one of my favorite powders. I have ringed the chamber on a Krag, in the neck, right where the base of the bullet was, using Puf-Lon. I've been doing a few experiments with dacron, but I'm very leery.